Psychedelics Today Podcast

In this episode, Joe interviews Paul Grof: research psychiatrist, clinician, author, brother of Stanislav, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and director of the Ottawa Mood Disorders Center.

He talks about his extensive career in psychiatry, and how trying to understand the cause of mood disorders led him to focusing on the very nature of consciousness. He believes that consciousness is a collaborative creation between the brain, body, and external fields, and that the key to connecting with the mechanistic side of academia is through talking about the unexplainable – near death experiences, pre-cognition, remote viewing – and of course, them having positive non-ordinary experiences through psychedelics or other means. He talks about how much we’re connected, how much our bodies remember, and how much society could change for the better if enough people experience the transpersonal.

He also discusses:

• His thoughts on legal frameworks, education, integration, and whether or not psychedelics will get stuck in psychiatry
• The importance of new study designs in research, as double blinding doesn’t make sense for psychedelics
• Concerns over spiritual emergence and emergencies: How much is the responsibility of the therapist or facilitator?
• The global rise in depression and addiction, especially in the younger generation, and the need for techniques for people to help themselves
• The work he’s doing with remote healing circles, using strong intention, positive emotions, and visualized healing

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Kat Murti: executive director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest nationwide network of students fighting to replace the War on Drugs with policies rooted in evidence, compassion, and human rights.

She talks about how she became interested in drug policy, which not surprisingly aligns with the many problems of The War on Drugs: how it’s a war on people, personal liberty, and our communities; how laws are not effective in enforcing morality; and how getting in trouble with the law often incentivizes more illegal activity. We all know that our current system doesn’t work and that the drug war no longer appeals to most reasonable people, but how can we move towards sensible policy? She discusses previous successes (both at SSDP and before), and some of their current projects, from the work they’re doing with fentanyl strip training and distribution, to education work at festivals and their program, “Just Say Know.”

She talks about:

• How drug policy isn’t going to look the same everywhere and shouldn’t: How do we effectively use different models in different places together for the benefit of everyone?
• The dangers of forcing drug users through drug courts and treatment centers
• The repealing of Oregon’s Measure 110 and how it’s unfair to blame its failure on problems that already existed in the state
• Their new focus on how the War on Drugs specifically affects women and reproductive rights, inspired by Louisiana recently scheduling Mifepristone and Misoprostol

and much more.

The SSDP’s biggest battle now is fighting the DEA’s attempted scheduling of DOI and DOC, two compounds that have been used in research for decades and pose no real threat to safety – which would drastically derail a ton of research. They just completed a 10-day hearing with the DEA. Watch Joe and Hamilton Morris’ breakdown here, and stay tuned to SSDP and PT for updates. 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Howard Kornfeld, MD: renowned pain medicine expert, addiction specialist, early pioneer in psychedelic medicine, and currently the director of recovery medicine at Recovery Without Walls.

As a leader in the utilization of buprenorphine, he talks about how it came about as a treatment for addiction and chronic pain, its similarities to MDMA, and how its fast-tracked FDA approval could give us clues on how to get MDMA approved. He also dives into the history of ketamine, its unique effects compared to other substances, its potential for abuse, and what can happen with overuse. And he talks a lot about the connection he sees between psychedelics and the prevention of nuclear war, inspired by Sasha Shulgin’s opinion that nothing changes minds faster than psychedelics. He points out that when there is darkness, there is light: Albert Hofmann’s famed bicycle trip on acid happened 3 months after the nuclear chain reaction was invented. Can the growing use of psychedelics inspire the kind of change we need to save the world?

He also discusses:

• The need for new study designs as we come to terms with the fact that double-blind studies don’t really work with psychedelics
• Criticisms of the FDA’s denial of MDMA: Was the process unfair?
• His predictions that advocates will begin pushing to decriminalize MDMA at the state level
• The books, Tripping on Utopia and Drugged
• How he played a part in prisons ending the practice of killing prisoners with cyanide gas

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Veronica Lightning Horse Perez: therapist, speaker, author, activist, and co-chief proponent for the Natural Medicine Health Act of 2022 (Prop 122); and Sean McAllister: attorney specializing in the regulatory, health care, business, and religious freedom aspects of psychedelic medicines, and one of the drafters of Prop 122.

This episode was recorded live at the Plant Medicine Cafe in Denver, CO – which served as an unofficial Prop 122 headquarters – and cohosted by Meaghan Len, co-founder of the U.S.’ first ayahuasca church, Sanctuary of the Sovereign Heart.

They dive into the details of Prop 122 and discuss why it’s the most freeing legislation we’ve seen, but also very complicated in the clash between an expensive regulated side and a risky and ambiguous decrim side. While the implementation process continues, they’ve learned that there is still a huge need for public education, and that one of the most important tasks now is to be hyper aware of how legislators will try to change what people already agreed on.

They discuss:

• The Federal vs. state legality issues we still see even after such sweeping legislation
• The huge gap in understanding why Indigenous communities are upset and why they need to be included in all discussions
• The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the complications of religion when many of us simply feel spiritual
• The natural vs. synthetic fallacy and the future of churches offering a synthetic sacrament
• The ontological shock many have after a big experience and why churches and community are needed to help guide people

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project: Founder and President, Jesse Gould; and Director of Development and Head of Family Relations, Allison Wilson.

Gould gives a background of Heroic Hearts Project and discusses their current projects and future goals, and Wilson talks about her nonprofit, The Hope Project, and its recent merger with HHP to bring more of a focus to the other side of veteran healing: the families of veterans. While Heroic Hearts and other veteran-aligned organizations have been an answer to many vets unable to find help otherwise (and frustrated with the inconsistencies of the VA), they talk a lot about that missing piece – how crucial it is to have family involved in a veteran’s reintegration, and how that healing can impact future generations.

"The Veteran’s Guide to Psychedelics: A Preparation and Integration Workbook" was recently released, with all proceeds going to HHP, and they are hosting their first Gala event, this week, December 5, in Los Angeles. The goal of the event is to fundraise, gather community, and recognize the supporters who have gotten Heroic Hearts to where it is today, and will feature live and silent auctions and a performance by Melissa Etheridge. Email Allison@heroicheartsproject.org if you’d like to attend.

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Victoria interviews Max Montrose: Founder of the Trichome Institute, a company offering online courses and certifications on cannabis.

Montrose explores the scientific and sensory aspects of cannabis, diving into the role of the aromatic compound, indole, and how the fresher and more aromatic (usually pungent) the flower is, the higher chance for having a more psychedelic experience. He dives into ways to maximize the psychedelic nature of cannabis, largely through “interprening,” which is his method for learning about a plant’s effects from smelling buds, measuring your sense of sensation and where you feel the smell is hitting you. And he talks a lot about intention and how the power of a cannabis experience can be determined by the reverence you have for the plant and the intention you put behind each inhale: It is a “total reflection of how much you care.”

He also discusses:

• The range of cannabis effects: how it can be just weed – something mindlessly smoked all day with a slight numbing effect – or an incredibly powerful, life-changing experience
• The importance of skillset being added to the concept of set and setting: the skills you have (and can practice) for helping you create your own setting to get through a tough time
• Issues with the legal cannabis industry about accuracy of strains, shelf life, and the ability to smell the product
• The lack of money in cannabis research: Why is no one funding research into indole chemistry?
• Why indica and sativa are not accurate terms, and how aroma is more of a factor than we realize

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC, LM: therapist, minister, and former professional vinyl DJ specializing in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and ministry. 

Bouchard introduces his 3-axis framework for psychedelic integration, which looks at the personal, the transpersonal, and, with time, seeing how the lessons learned from non-ordinary experiences and personal work are expressing to the world: How can we use what we've learned to show up better? How can we use our gifts to be of service to others? What is stopping us? He also talks about the importance of building a foundation for holding the experience of a psychedelic journey - that you have to first build an ego to later dissolve it - but recognizes the tricky balance of not strengthening an ego so much that it gets in the way. 

He discusses:

• The broad scope of what someone can mean when they say "psychedelic healing"
• The importance of keeping the 3 axes in harmony - that you should always be attending to each
• Why someone beginning a healing journey needs to be smart, curious, and desperate
• The challenge of discerning between an entity or a projection: How do we know what to take from that experience?
• Why practitioners and therapists need to find a balance between being confident and humble

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Bria Tavakoli, LPCC, MA, MS: a therapist specializing in relational and sex therapy, with a focus on helping clients integrate psychedelic experiences.

She shares her personal journey with psychedelics and how they unlocked deep trauma, allowing her to develop a level of comfort with intimacy, love, and her sexuality. She talks about the parallels between psychedelic journeys and sexual experiences, and how both can be gateways to unexplored parts of ourselves, as well as catalysts for healing and transformation. She discusses society’s cultural shame surrounding our sexuality, why we need to view sexuality from a wellness-based model, and how psychedelics can help couples grow together, and at times, really challenge their relational structures. When asked how to combine sex and psychedelics, she answers, “very carefully.”

She also discusses:

• The immense importance of creating a safe space for couples discussing their intimacy
• How clients reporting sexual concerns is usually a cheat code to determining what their real issues are
• Ethical and practical considerations for combining psychedelics and sex therapy, related to stories of concerning sexual behavior in the space
• Why humor and lightness is so important in this work
• The importance of honoring individual capacity and being true to yourself when exploring new experiences

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves.

Cappello discusses the current challenges and controversies facing a ketamine industry that has moved much faster than anyone anticipated, and stresses the need to create industry-wide standards – especially for at-home ketamine – before the government imposes its own standards on us. Citing the Matthew Perry case and other bad behavior from providers, he talks about the risks of overpromising and underdelivering, the lack of integration in the majority of at-home ketamine frameworks, and how profit-driven, subscription model motives have overshadowed patient care and ethical practices.

He also discusses:

• The complications from personal perspectives and passions shifting after a psychedelic experience, and how that can change over time
• The FDA’s recent rejection of MDMA: What would have happened to MDMA if it had been approved?
• Hope for more Native American churches, and what they can learn from the DEA’s denial of Soul Quest
• The story of a bump of cocaine ruining the hope for cannabis to be decriminalized under the Carter administration
• Our current Wild West of gas station CBD, Delta-8, and barely-regulated vapes

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Geoff Bathje, Ph.D.: licensed psychologist, researcher, former Full Professor, and co-founder of Sana Healing Collective, a Chicago-based non-profit focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy and psychedelic integration.

He talks about what he feels is one of the largest factors in our mental health crisis: the individualistic and neoliberal lens Western culture has placed on mental health and how it neglects the massive systemic and relational factors that are affecting us all. He digs into how we got so alienated and how psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness can not only help us think critically and solve problems, but also move us out of this individualistic framework of healing and more into a collective one. How do we use psychedelics to fix our relationships and find our community?

He discusses:

• The challenge of knowing when to work for relationships and when to just end them, especially in the afterglow of a big experience
• Group ketamine experience vs. individual, how groups can help facilitators find patterns, and how ketamine works with somatic therapy
• His paper, “Psychedelic integration: An analysis of the concept and its practice” and his visual model of integration showing the different domains of our personal experience
• What he thinks will happen next in drug development: Will therapy be left out after Lykos’ failure with MDMA?
• The importance of moving beyond aggressive criticism and moving into world building

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Thomas Feegel: co-founder of Beond Ibogaine, an ibogaine treatment and research facility in Cancún, Mexico.

When Feegel first heard of ibogaine 16 years ago, he found that people were having great success, but nobody could recommend where to go for treatment. So he worked to create what was needed: a combination of a hospital, mental health treatment facility, retreat center, and resort, with the proper infrastructure in place, employees with ICU experience, exhaustive HIPAA-compliant admission criteria, regular data collection, and a major focus on safety.

Addressing the recent Rolling Stone article about the tragic death of a patient at Beond in 2022 (interestingly, 2 days after his initial dose), he discusses what he feels was inaccurate, largely related to what could be perceived as a suggestion that there wasn’t enough screening or that corners were cut. With no official reason given for the patient’s death, it brings into question just how safe one can be, especially with people whose bodies and hearts have been through so much. How much hidden harm is created by the stress of PTSD and addiction?

He discusses:

• The complexity of journalism and drawing conclusions from limited information
• The limitations of conventional addiction treatments and the sad numbers around how many people stick with rehab
• The importance of collecting as much data as possible about each patient, at regular intervals, prior to, during, and after the experience
• The need for a regulating group to create standards around admission and administration procedures for ibogaine

and more! 

We’re releasing this episode on Veterans Day because Beond’s program was co-developed by veterans, military medical personnel, and active-duty law enforcement officers who have seen how much ibogaine can help. If you know a vet who is struggling, be sure to let them know what's possible with psychedelic therapy. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, David interviews Floris Wolswijk: senior project manager at Delphi; co-founder of FLO coaching; and founder of Blossom, an online informational hub collecting psychedelic courses, trials, companies, and over 2000 categorized research articles.

When Wolswijk began Blossom, he was barely able to fill a weekly newsletter, and now he’s adding a new study nearly every day, perfectly illustrating the exponential growth in psychedelic research. He talks about why so much research is happening (and why more isn’t), the trends he’s seen, the benefit in research changing people’s minds, and what he hopes for in the future. What can the research community learn from existing real world evidence, and how can retreat centers and underground communities contribute?

He also discusses:

• What culture is like in the Netherlands, where psilocybin truffles are legal
• Drug development and the possibilities of adjusting existing molecules
• What we can learn from the Lykos and FDA situation
• The economics of psychedelics and how insurance will likely be the next big conversation
• His work with FLO coaching, and how coaching, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin can work together

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Tracy: head of sales & partnerships at Enthea, a company that works with employers, unions, and employee assistance programs to be able to offer ketamine-assisted therapy (and psilocybin where it’s legal) to employees.

She talks about her path to psychedelics and how the shifts in her life led her to want to help others, finding Enthea and using her 15 years of experience in healthcare to make an immediate difference. She explains how the process works for an employee of a company Enthea works with, and the importance of evidence-based medical policy and rigorous screening to make sure people are getting the best intervention possible. One of Enthea’s largest clients is Dr. Bronner’s, who reported incredible improvements after employees used the benefit, with a 65% improvement in depression scores and an 86% improvement in PTSD.

She also discusses:

• How psychedelics bring awareness to what we need to work on
• Less-discussed treatment modalities, like electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), and stellate ganglion block (SGB)
• The inefficiency of traditional talk therapy: 50% of people only see really good benefits after 20 sessions
• The importance of viewing mental health as individualized care: What else can we offer to people who haven’t been helped by traditional methods?
• The research that she wants to see, like measures in how present or productive people are before and after experiences

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe and Kyle finally meet up again for the first episode of Psychedelics Lately: the updated version of the much-missed Psychedelics Weekly, where they’ll meet each month to talk about the most interesting stories in psychedelics.

The main story this month is the fate of Massachusetts’ Question 4: Regulated Access to Psychedelic Substances Initiative (The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act). They discuss what they like about the bill, its opposition, and its support, including actress Eliza Dushku Palandjian, who went from a diagnosis of PTSD and an in-the-psychedelic-closet underground experience to becoming a very public, soon-to-be certified psychedelic facilitator. If you live in Massachusetts, make sure to read about the bill and get out and vote this Tuesday (or now, if you’re registered for early voting).

They also discuss:

• Joe’s recent east coast travels to Harvard and the PhilaDelic conference
• Alfred North Whitehead and Process Philosophy
• The Psychedelics and Pain Association, and Court Wing’s involvement in the first published case report of complex regional pain syndrome being treated with psilocybin
• The scientific community needing to embrace more experientially-based approaches and practices
• The challenge of making meaning out of the mystical

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes: philosopher, lecturer at the University of Exeter, co-director of the Breaking Convention conference, and author who most recently co-edited Philosophy and Psychedelics: Frameworks for Exceptional Experience.

He discusses how the work of William James and an early psilocybin experience led him to an interest in philosophy and psychedelics, and he dives deep into several philosophical concepts: panpsychism, pantheism, ethical pluralism, teleology, process theology, Whitehead’s fallacy of misplaced concreteness, and more. He believes that science has lost touch with metaphysics – the branch of philosophy that examines the basic structure of reality – and that studying metaphysics will lead to more beneficial experiences with the non-ordinary: If you can understand and frame the experience, you’ll have a much better chance of being able to integrate its lessons.

He discusses:

• The complexity of ethics and the need to ask more philosophical questions
• His book, Neo-Nihilism, which argued that there are no shared objective morals
• The West’s’ obsession with scientism and believing only what can be reducible to matter: Is science honest if it ignores the ineffable?
• The connections between philosophical frameworks and religion: Would studying comparative religion help us better understand each other?
• The need for more experiential research

and more! 

Sjöstedt-Hughes is the co-lead on Exeter’s 12-month postgraduate certificate course, “Psychedelics: Mind, Medicine, and Culture,” and is finalizing his next book, a manual on psychedelics and metaphysics.

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews 4 members of the Penn Psychedelics Collaborative: Co-Founder, Taylor Andrews Flatt, PMHNP; Associate Director, Victor Pablo Acero, Ph.D.; Professor in Fine Arts and Co-Director of the Weitzman School of Design, Jackie Tileston; and Executive Director and Director of the Penn Program for Mindfulness, Michael Baime, MD.

Recorded earlier this month at the PhilaDelic conference – one of the primary initiatives of the PPC – they discuss their paths to psychedelics and why this transdisciplinary collection of faculty, researchers, and clinicians at the University of Pennsylvania was so necessary. Viewing psychedelics from different perspectives (Flatt from nursing, Acero from bioengineering, Tileston from the art and mysticism side of things, and Baime from a more mindfulness point of view), their group is a case study in collaboration – a place where connections can be catalyzed and shared goals can be addressed from different angles. How far can we go when different groups start working together?

They discuss:

• The concept of psychedelics not just being used to treat conditions, but to make us healthier
• Psychedelic art and the idea of the art itself being psychoactive rather than just representations of trips
• The work of David Glowacki and bringing about non-ordinary states of consciousness through VR
• Research into salvia being used to alleviate stroke symptoms
• How a lack of funding can really create focus

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two people on the frontlines of the campaign for Massachusetts' Question 4: The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act: Graham Moore and Community Engagement Director, Jamie Morey.

They discuss the specifics of the initiative, listed on the ballot as the “Limited Legalization and Regulation of Certain Natural Psychedelic Substances,” including the removal of criminal penalties for limited personal use, and the establishment of a regulatory agency that will provide therapeutic access to any of five natural psychedelics (psilocybin, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, and ibogaine). They tell their stories of how they discovered the power of psychedelics, and discuss the work they’re doing, educating a fairly interested – but still very hesitant – public about the bill and the importance of it passing this November.

They talk about:

• The significance of this happening in Massachusetts, especially with the amount of biomedical research happening in Boston
• The story of a member of Baystaters creating a fraudulent persona in a veterans advocacy group to fight against legalization efforts
• The challenge of getting people to publicly support initiatives that deal with illegal substances
• The power of small steps in legislation: Before this bill, MA had the most local measures in the U.S.
• How data collection should be handled at service centers

and more! 

If you live in Massachusetts, learn about the bill here, and make sure to get out and cast your vote in November. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Diana Quinn, ND: naturopathic doctor, healing justice practitioner, and director of clinical education at the Naropa Center for Psychedelic Studies, where she directs their Psilocybin Facilitator Training certificate program.

She discusses her path from anthropology to naturopathy, and eventually to psychedelics and activism, finding a framework for psychedelic education grounded in healing justice, which recognizes the impact of collective trauma on all of us, seeks to reclaim lost or stolen models of healing, focuses on equity and accessibility, and brings an anti-oppression lens to training programs to give students a greater capacity for culturally responsive care. She encourages seeing things from an anti-capitalist viewpoint, and recognizes the huge clash between using such powerful and mystical medicines inside structures so embedded with problematic human qualities. How can you build inside of these Western systems without being affected by that capitalist energy?

She discusses:

• The importance of respecting plants from other cultures – that no healing or consciousness expansion is justifiable when it threatens an entire species
• The challenge of integrating the weirdest parts of non-ordinary states into education: How does a Western framework come to terms with the ineffable?
• How colonialism and the culture born from it has hurt us all
• The importance of finding your own lineage and what is sacred to you
• The work of Rick Tarnas and the amazing patterns we can find in astrology

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Rick Doblin, Ph.D.: founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and former board member at Lykos Therapeutics, MAPS’ public benefit subsidiary.

Doblin tells his side of the story: that the FDA’s concerns with double blinding not working had been fully addressed ahead of time, that they had negotiated agreements that were no longer agreed to when new FDA employees came on board, that there was a lot of confusion from going back and forth with the FDA on how Phase 3 studies should be designed, and more. He believes that both Lykos and MAPS made a massive mistake in assuming that provable science was more important than public opinion, and that ignoring critics who were saying whatever they wanted caused them to lose control of the narrative – which clearly influenced the advisory committee. While Lykos figures out their next steps with the FDA, MAPS is focusing their attention on what they feel is most important in light of this ruling: better public education and drug policy.

He talks about:

• How there’s a bias at the FDA to be harsh: Does automatically saying no just make it look like you’re being rigorous?
• The work of the Dutch government in researching MDMA, and Lykos’ odd decision to not highlight any of it
• Massachusetts’ Legalization and Regulation of Psychedelic Substances initiative, and the huge opportunity for progress at the local level
• Why federal agents at Burning Man work so hard to give tickets to attendees for smoking cannabis
• Why sharing stories of your positive experiences with psychedelics is so important

and more! 

MAPS has announced that 2025’s Psychedelic Science conference will be in Denver, June 16-20, and will have experiential opportunities before and after. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Gabriela Galindo: program coordinator of FLOWS (Foundations for Leaders Organizing for Water and Sustainability), an organization working towards social and environmental justice, ecosystem restoration, community building, and the preservation and protection of Indigenous medicines.

She discusses her entry point to psychedelics and how she got involved with Colorado’s Natural Medicine Health Act (Prop 122) when she saw a complete absence of Indigenous representation in the legislature. The narrative that we all have a right to healing and that these medicines belong to everyone is pretty common today, but Galindo argues that this is not fair: that each plant has its own history, and that each is protected by its own culture. Shouldn’t the communities that have stewarded these medicines for centuries have a say in whether their medicine is going to be shared and legislated at the state level? Shouldn’t they have the ability to consent to these new proposals?

She talks about:

• Why she likes using ‘movement’ instead of ‘renaissance’ when discussing our psychedelic culture
• What we could learn from Indigenous people’s harmony with nature as we face an ongoing climate crisis
• The balancing act of pleasing everyone: Would decriminalization be as supported if Indigenous communities wanted to keep some of these substances criminalized for the protection of their culture and their ecosystems?
• How psychedelic communities should evolve to include community work into their routines: What do local communities need and how can you help?
• The importance of knowing when to step aside and truly center a community voice

and more! 

If you’re in Colorado, Galindo will be leading a panel on Oct. 17 called “Honoring Sacred Plant Medicines: Restoring Balance Through Indigenous Wisdom” as part of Wellness Week in Boulder. Click here for more info.

For links, head to the show notes page.