Psychedelics Today Podcast

In this episode, Joe interviews Alyssa Gursky, LPC: artist, research associate and study therapist at the Social Neuroscience and Psychotherapy (SNaP) lab, and founder of Psychedelic Art Therapy LLC, which pioneers ketamine-assisted art therapy.

She talks about her first mushroom experience and how her art and creative process instantly felt different – how the judgment and concern about where the art was going disappeared and was replaced by a freedom; a return to a more childlike way of being, where all that mattered was the fun of the creative process, and expressing her inner world in art. They realized how much the creative process related to true embodiment and the ability to be fully present, and how healing it can be to simply be with other people and create art. 

She talks about:

• The power of being seen in a group, and how the bravery of one person can completely shift the group dynamic
• The need for mentorship in the psychedelic space
• The comfort and freedom found in affinity groups
• The inspiring lives of Genesis P-Orridge and avant-garde filmmaker, Alejandro Jodorowsky
• Rick Rubin’s ability to treat creativity as a spiritual act
• and how attending a live wrestling event aligns with non-ordinary states.

Gursky is launching a virtual education and support group this March for anyone who wants to integrate art into client work or their own process. Visit her instagram for details. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Matthew ‘Whiz’ Buckley: former decorated US Navy F/A-18 Hornet fighter pilot and now, founder and CEO of No Fallen Heroes Foundation, a non-profit focused on healing veterans and first responders with psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Buckley met Joe in D.C. while they were both campaigning for psychedelic therapy to any lawmaker they could speak with. He talks about how the government is spending a fortune on the military, but not paying the total cost, since so much of that is externalized onto the soldiers themselves. He points out how many of them care more about making money than saving lives, and how we need “We the people” moments to wake them up or remove them from office.

He discusses:

• His time in the Navy and his transition back to civilian life, coming to terms with trauma and realizing how much was physical (including tinnitus)
• His life-changing experiences under ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT with the Mission Within
• How we should be teaching veterans about various mental health options (including psychedelic-assisted therapy) as part of their transition process
• The signing of the National Defense Authorization Act and the disappointing amount of money reserved for psychedelic research: Was it all just lip service?
• The complications that arise when trying to get benefits from the VA while also trying to move on: When honesty about mental health isn’t incentivized, when do you tell the truth?
• His experience operating legally in Colorado and how he plans to stay on top of Governor Desantis to bring psychedelics to Florida

and more! Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, David interviews Saga Briggs: freelance journalist and author of "How to Change Your Body: The Science of Interoception and Healing Through Connection to Yourself and Others."

A collection of interviews, peer-reviewed research, and personal story; the book dives deep into the mind-body connection, how to become more embodied, and our need for social connection – which factors into mental and physical health far more than most of us realize. The nod to Michael Pollan’s book is also a challenge: Have we been focusing too much on our minds and now it’s time to pay more attention to our bodies? How much of the benefit of psychedelic experiences is related to truly experiencing our bodies?

She discusses:

• How neuroscience is starting to look more at brain-body interactions, and the psychedelic space’s growing interest in somatics
• The minimal and narrative selves: Do psychedelics make the minimal self traverse over the narrative self?
• Flexible switching and applying interoception to a social context
• Her concept of a ‘possibility space’ and new ways of perceiving
• The benefit of adding embodiment practices to psychedelic assisted therapy – especially during preparation and integration

and more! Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Rio: psychedelic guide, performance and transformation coach, musician, and co-founder of Enfold, a retreat center in BC, Canada.

While Enfold caters each experience to each client, they largely work with 5-MeO-DMT (which is unregulated in Canada); partly because of its power, and partly because Rio realized how much was missing in terms of safety and process when using the substance. They are trying to fill in the gaps, working with the University Health Network Centre for Mental Health to analyze measurements of mindfulness, DAS tests, the Brief Inventory of Thriving survey, and language used when describing experiences to collect as much qualitative data as possible. He discusses their screening process, why they work with synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, why they encourage everyone to go to a group session, and how 5-MeO seems to bypass psychological processes and largely be related to somatic release.

He talks about:

• The power of 5-MeO and being humble and honest with yourself: Are you stable enough to handle the dysregulation?
• 5-MeO bad actors and 'Drive-by 5' people who show up, do the drug, and leave
• The plight of Sonoran Dessert toads and the need for more data around their declining populations
• How 5-MeO seems to connect people with a higher power, and the need for the experiencer to find their own context for it
• The importance of creating a clean and open container for spirituality and meeting the client where they are

and more!

Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Ayize Jama-Everett: author, educator, filmmaker, and therapist with a long history of work in substance use and mental health services.

When Jama-Everett was last on the show, “A Table of Our Own” – a film focusing on healing, psychedelics, and bonds within the Black community – was still in its infancy. It’s now complete, and he and others behind the film are touring with it, with showings coming up in Detroit, LA, and Boston. A free follow-up discussion hosted by CIIS’ Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research is happening Feb. 15, and, from February 15-16 only, the film is available to rent online.

He gives his full origin story: growing up around substance use, how he got into therapy and healing people through journeys, how “A Table of Our Own” came about, and how it was influenced by mushrooms. Then he discusses a lot more, with a much-needed critical eye:

• His experiences with some notorious bad actors in the facilitation space
• Decriminalization and how we celebrate small wins while ignoring steps back
• Drug exceptionalism, the Drug War, and the demonization of crack
• Power dynamics and the dangerous concept of letting go
• Why the Black community is so skeptical of psychedelics

And he talks about why it’s so important to meet people where they are – that what works for one person or one community won’t necessarily work for another, and the above-ground, corporatized, overly medicalized model will never work for everyone. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Grinspoon: primary care physician and cannabis specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital, TedX speaker, certified physician life coach, and author of the new book, Seeing Through the Smoke: A Cannabis Expert Untangles the Truth about Marijuana.

He tells his story of growing up in a house where academics like John Mack and Carl Sagan regularly smoked cannabis, and being inspired by the groundbreaking books of his father, Lester Grinspoon. An outspoken advocate for drug policy reform and embracing different, non-AA paths to recovery, he talks about how he got there: his opiate addiction, fall from medicine, subsequent return, and learning just how deep the stigma against drugs goes, and how much the medical establishment is another arm of the Drug War. Seeing Through the Smoke aims to tell the truth about cannabis, especially on benefits and real and debunked harms. How can we get more physicians and lawmakers on our side if all they know is propaganda?

He discusses:

-The challenge in speaking honestly with physicians about drug use -Why physicians are in support of researching psychedelics but not cannabis -Stigmatized language and Drug War vibes in medical software -The truth about cannabis, schizophrenia, and the risk of drug-induced psychosis -Portugal and the ‘Rat Park’ model -The importance of listening to what patients are saying – especially when we don’t have enough good data

and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Kate Pate: Ph.D. neurophysiologist; Founder and CEO of Coruna Medical; founding board member of the Psychedelic Medicine Association; and Founder of The Way Back, a company that will provide education and coaching services related to military, veteran, and first responder health – often in wilderness settings.

She talks about her introduction to psychedelics through the Heroic Hearts Project, where she later served as an integration coach and director of research, looking at psilocybin for traumatic brain injury symptoms, and how the gut microbiome changes after ingesting ayahuasca. She points out that gut health hasn’t been a focus of research, but it’s now emerging as a key indicator of physical and mental health. So, how do psychedelics, particularly plant-based ones, come into play? Are the long term shifts after an experience related to a change in the bacteria inside of us?

She breaks down what a microbiome is and how it changes based on diet; how inflammation is created and the inflammatory cascade that happens after a head injury; how toxins create a stress response similar to an allergic reaction; the frustrations of vets and the limited resources of the VA; the commonality of substance and alcohol use disorders in people coming home from service; the many nonprofits she’s worked with; and how important it is to increase science funding from the government. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe speaks with Paul F. Austin: Founder & CEO of Third Wave, Founder of Psychedelic Coaching Institute, and host of Third Wave's The Psychedelic Podcast.

Recorded in-person at this year's reMind conference, this episode – a shared release with Third Wave – is a rare glimpse into the inner workings of both Psychedelics Today and Third Wave, with Joe and Paul reconnecting after early podcast appearances and interviewing each other about where they've come from and where they're going now that they're so many years into this. Paul breaks down Third Wave's history and new coaching training program, and Joe discusses Vital: Why he invested in Vital over an investment raise, what we've learned from the first two cohorts, how we've handled scholarships, and why sometimes losing money can be worth it if it's for the greater good.

They talk about the challenge of keeping the lights on while trying to create something new; the balance of running a media company while building out an educational platform; the importance of staying focused and ignoring the noise; the relationship-building they've seen from their students; why we need to welcome the corporate types we may be inclined to dismiss; and why seeding good actors in as many roles and communities as possible is vital to the growth of psychedelics.  Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Ryan Latreille: Founder of Hearthstone Collective, which sells functional mushrooms and low-dose kanna designed for microdosing; and Kanna Extract Co., which is focused on offering high-potency kanna extracts more for ceremonial and recreational use.

He talks about how he found his way to kanna; his first psychedelic experience (kanna mixed with MDMA); how he worked with a Koi tribal leader to find high-alkaloid kanna; how they created the strain they use; and why so many people are interested in kanna and more people should try it, as he believes it’s not only a natural alternative to other substances and alcohol, but also a great entry point for people looking to experiment with microdosing.

If you want to learn a lot about kanna, this is the episode for you, as it is all discussed: How dosing should be done depending on what you’re looking for; whether or not it’s fair to say kanna is ‘MDMA-lite’; Indigenous history of usage; drug interactions and safety; the journey from seed to harvest; a breakdown of different grades of kanna; how the ratio of different alkaloids creates different experiences; and what could be possible by combining different alkaloids, different strains, and by pairing with different substances.

Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Emma Knighton: Somatic trauma therapist, Vital instructor, and psychedelic integration therapist focusing on consciousness exploration, complex PTSD from childhood abuse, and queer identity development.

This episode is a bit of a masterclass on consent and boundaries within the client/practitioner relationship. She discusses power dynamics: how conflicts arise due to the breaking of established boundaries; safety, and embracing the idea of creating a container that is ‘safe enough’ to go into places that feel unsafe; and the importance of maintaining agreed-upon boundaries no matter how much the client may want to break them. They discuss ways to fulfill the need for touch when touch was not agreed upon, and the concept of practicing touch interactions before the experience – that playing out possible scenarios will create a somatic map so bodies remember what it feels like to be near each other while one body is deep in an experience.

And she talks about much more: What she’s learned from the kink and sex work community and their similarities with the psychedelic world; ways to handle consent in group settings; the clash between giving people agency but needing to step in and protect them; restorative justice models and how they could be used in a much-needed psychedelic practitioner accountability system; the need for practitioners to continue doing their own work; and how part of true consent is being honest about one’s own limitations or conflicts as a practitioner. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Erik Vaughan: Co-Founder and Manager of Epiphany mushrooms, a mushroom and mental health company based in Akron, Ohio.

Epiphany mushrooms will initially be selling Lion's Mane, Reishi, and Cordyceps, and they plan to expand into more functional mushrooms while also pursuing a license to operate healing centers in Colorado. Vaughan was involved in changing Colorado's psilocybin legislation after lobbying to add a section that allows product testing labs to register and charge for their services – while voluntary and complementary to required testing, it allows growers to have an unlimited amount of product for testing purposes; adds an extra step in keeping the grower and lab in compliance with state law; and, as more states work on their own legislation, highlights the need for potency testing to let customers know exactly what they're ingesting. 

He discusses changing attitudes and how Michigan can lead the way for the midwest; why he's excited about Colorado and what they got right; the enthusiasm of the mycology crowd; Rick Perry's speech at Psychedelic Science 2023; the iron law of prohibition and mushroom products sold in Ohio; and the incredible inefficiency of the drug war (when viewed like it was not designed to do exactly what it's doing). Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Christine Calvert: Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor and certified Holotropic Breathwork® facilitator.

She talks about how addiction led her to breathwork, how breathwork has helped her over the years, how breathwork can be a compliment to other self-work, and how becoming comfortable with breathwork first could be a very important stepping stone towards better understanding the psychedelic experience. She talks about how years of breathwork helped her navigate complicated states of consciousness, and the incredible benefit of learning to trust our body's capacity to heal itself. 

She discusses using bodywork in sessions and the importance of having the experiencer be the one who requests it; how much a facilitator's past relationship with touch affects how they use touch; the risk in meditation vs. the safety of breathwork; the concept of learning self-awareness; how profound it is to be witnessed in breathwork's dyad model; and why researching and creating guidelines for this kind of work seems impossible. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, recorded in-person at the recent reMind conference, Joe interviews Kaci Hohmann and Dave Kopilak: business attorneys at Emerge Law Group and co-chairs of Emerge’s psychedelics practice group. Hohmann also serves as Chair of the Oregon State Bar’s Cannabis and Psychedelics Law Section.

They were both drafters of Oregon Measure 109 (with Kopilak as the primary drafter), so this episode goes deep into the details, legalities, and possibilities behind Measure 109. What licenses are involved? What does a business heading to Oregon need to prepare for? What do they think the feds will do and how does that relate to cannabis’ Cole Memorandum? What is tax code 280E and how can its effects be minimized? What do they see the future looking like?

They discuss what they do for clients at Emerge Law Group; the differences between the cannabis and psychedelics industries; why service centers are likely more important than the products; and how the psilocybin service center experience is more like a relationship with clients than anything in the cannabis world, which makes everything much more complicated – but also much safer.

Joe also highlights some recent news, including MAPS PBC rebranding to Lykos Therapeutics, symptoms from traumatic brain injuries being improved by the combination of ibogaine and magnesium, and more! Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Mike Margolies: community catalyst; conversation creator; Founder of Psychedelic Seminars; and Co-Founder and Co-Steward of the Global Psychedelic Society.

The Global Psychedelic Society was created for all of the different psychedelic societies that have sprung up over the world to connect, share resources and information with each other, and be housed in a central hub so people can find them more easily. He talks about Frederic Laloux’s book, "Reinventing Organizations," and modeling the GPS around the “Teal” concept of organization, where employees are encouraged to show up as their true, honest, and most powerful selves; where it’s more about relationships than hierarchy; and more about embracing a mycelial – and psychedelic – way of thinking and interacting with each other. He breaks down how this way of thinking has progressed from the earliest ways of organizing, and discusses its three main principles of self-governance, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose.

He then talks about the Boom Festival: its “Liminal Village,” its inventive Kosmicare harm reduction program, and how drugs are not as decriminalized as people think in Portugal; and Burning Man: how it all came together for him this year when he didn’t even want to go, his experiences with the rain and a friend’s dreams warning of floods, what he learned from the ghost of a lost friend, and how that resulted in the concept of Batman doing a striptease to Seal’s “Kiss From a Rose.” Is the Joker simply a manifestation of Batman’s shadow material and his desire to be a hero? Yea, this one gets weird… Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Christine Caldwell: graduate of the first cohort of Vital and Founder of End of Life Psychedelic Care (EOLPC); and Mary Telliano: end-of-life coach, psychedelic facilitator, and Founder of The Anam Cara Academy, which trains people in the art of end-of-life coaching.

Whether we’re comfortable with it or not, we’re all going to die. And research shows that psychedelic experiences can help tremendously with the anxiety and depression that surround that inevitable transition between realms. Caldwell and Telliano discuss the role of a death doula; how they found their way into end-of-life care; why the West’s relationship with death changed during the Civil War; the role of families in the process; the legality of providing end-of-life psychedelics and the complications that arise when people are unable to leave their homes; and how different substances can be used based on each person’s abilities and comfort level. 

They talk about why the mystical experience of psychedelics can be so helpful during this process (and how the placebo effect can be a very real factor); tell a few stories of amazing things they’ve witnessed while doing this work; and drive the point home of how important it is for us to reintegrate death as a natural part of life – to have rites of passage around death, to learn from death, and, much like we need to remember our inner healing capacity, realize that we all have the capacity to play the role of a death doula for someone else. Click here to head to the show notes page.  Click here to apply to Vital! Applications close on January 14. 

In this episode, we toast to the beginning of an exciting and hopefully groundbreaking 2024 by switching things up a bit. Christopher Koddermann, Co-Founder and Chair of Board of the International Therapeutic Psilocybin Rescheduling Initiative (ITPRI) will be conducting some interviews for PT, and in this episode, he does his first – with our Co-Founders, Joe Moore and Kyle Buller.

Kyle tells the story of his fateful New Years Eve snowboarding trip that resulted in a near death experience and a complete change in his life’s trajectory, and Joe discusses his more academic roots and how he and Kyle were united through their shared passion for the work of Stan Grof, holotropic breathwork, and transpersonal psychology. Psychedelics Today was created largely with no aims other than to promote transpersonal psychology and archive the best insights from their mentors, but has obviously turned into so much more, mostly from the simple goal of trying to spread the word through interesting conversations.

They talk about the growth of PT; how they got involved in education; the harms of the drug war; why decriminalization isn’t enough; where they see ‘the psychedelic renaissance’ going; what has surprised them the most in the last few years; and what we’re most proud of: Vital – how it came to be created, what’s involved, the benefits of the retreats, the self-discovery they’ve witnessed, and what they’ve learned through two successful cohorts.

The next edition of Vital begins on January 23, and we’ve extended applications until January 14, so if you’ve been curious if Vital is the answer you’ve been looking for, now is the time to act! Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Kayse Gehret: artist; author of "Body/Work: Careers in Massage Therapy"; and the Founder of Microdosing for Healing, a virtual community for microdosing and other modalities of the healing arts.

She tells the story of embracing microdosing and her grand mal seizure disorder going away, and how the inability to touch people during the pandemic led to the creation of Microdosing for Healing. She breaks down the details of the program, challenges she's seen, and the importance of using every effective modality possible to align with each person's individual experience. The next 6-Week Immersion Group course begins January 26.

She talks about how accessing the body is usually the best entry point to healing; how effective journaling and other personal development practices are to recognize change (especially with how subtle microdosing can be); the efficacy of group process; how physicians are beginning to see the power in community and connection; concerns over the "jump in the deep end" attitude of many people leading to destabilizing experiences; how regular check-ins are important to keep people connected to their original intention; and the idea that people are striving for an unattainable state of perfection - that our goal should be a constant state of improvement and aligning ourselves to who we are meant to be - and microdosing until we don't need to microdose anymore.

Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Mike Finoia: standup comedian, Producer for the hit show, “Impractical Jokers,” and co-host of the Comes a Time Podcast with Dead & Company bassist, Oteil Burbridge. His new Special, “Don’t Let Me Down,” is out now.

He talks about his early days of recreational drug use at jam band shows; a powerful psilocybin experience; passing out before his first ketamine experience and how his commitment has made subsequent experiences much smoother; and how his continued work has allowed him to focus on what’s truly important. He’s seen positive results from talking about his ketamine-assisted psychotherapy experiences on stage, and he’s working on new material that will be much more focused on not just psychedelics, but the therapy, self-work, and growth he’s gone through in his journey.

He also discusses the influence of other comedians; the bioavailability in different ketamine methods; how psychedelics are like a performance-enhancing drug; the importance of having a working, attainable idea of success and not getting caught up in other people’s lives; the benefit of asking people in the audience to raise their hands if they’ve done psychedelics; and the importance of recognizing that psychedelics are absolutely not for everyone – at least if they’re not ready. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe and Kyle are honored to welcome back Stanislav and Brigitte Grof: Stan being the person who kickstarted their interest in non-ordinary states of consciousness, breathwork, and this podcast; and Brigitte: his other half, co-creator of Grof® Legacy Training, and support system (and often, voice) since his stroke a few years back.

They discuss the recently released Stanislav Grof, LSD Pioneer: From Pharmacology to Archetypes, which Brigitte assembled in honor of Stan’s 90th birthday. It celebrates his life’s work in pioneering research into non-ordinary states of consciousness and transpersonal psychology, and features an extended interview with Stan; testimonials from a number of legends in the psychedelic and psychological fields like Jack Kornfield, Rupert Sheldrake, Richard Tarnas, and Fritjof Capra; and a large photo album of rarely seen pictures, including Stan doing his first experiments with LSD.

And they talk about so much more: The evolution of LSD psychotherapy as Stan realized people’s experiences were coming from the psyche rather than any pharmacology; why he started practicing and teaching breathwork; Stan’s love of treasure hunts; how the perinatal matrices were born and how each corresponds to astrology and religious archetypes; why experience in breathwork can be so beneficial to better psychedelic experiences and facilitation; why integration is equally as important as the experience; and an argument to take archetypal astrology more seriously – that there is often a synchronicity that can’t be denied between these archetypes, events, and experiences. Click here to head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Angie Leek, LMFT/LPC-S, SEP: Vital instructor, Founder of the Holos Foundation for Transpersonal Healing, and psychotherapist offering KAP through her private practice, Holos Counseling; and Justin LaPree: Vital graduate, decorated Marine, former firefighter, and Founder and President of Heroic Path to Light; a retreat center in Austin, Texas offering psychedelic-assisted therapy and community to veterans, first responders, and Gold/White Star families.

LaPree shares his personal journey of struggling to reintegrate into life after war and the daily traumas he lived as a firefighter leading to an eventual suicide attempt, and the healing he found when he rediscovered the community and purpose he had been longing for. And Leek tells her story of her spiritual emergency and the nonlinear path she found for coming to terms with her repressed trauma, further illustrating a common theme we see in this space of the wounded healer, and the challenge of taking care of yourself first in order to be able to heal others.

They discuss the importance of specialized communities for trauma healing; the need for a support system and the power of sharing experiences with others; how they both work with their clients, the idea of viewing preparation as “pre-integration”; why families and friends also need to be prepared; and how, if you feel like something needs to change or you’re in need of a community, maybe it all begins with you.

They also talk about how much they loved Vital and the impact it’s had on their life paths. The deadline for applications for the 2024 cohort of Vital is tomorrow, December 20, at midnight, so if you’re ready to take the leap, head to vitalpsychedelictraining.com to apply now! Click here to head to the show notes page.