Psychedelics Today Podcast

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Casey Paleos, MD: Vital instructor, researcher, psychiatrist with a private practice offering ketamine infusion therapy and KAP, and co-founder of Nautilus Sanctuary, a non-profit psychedelic research, education, and advocacy organization. 

Paleos talks about how stress creates trauma, and how the symptoms Western medicine tries to silence are actually signals – a quality assurance mechanism sending an alert that something is wrong, and that when symptoms are labeled as ‘treatment-resistant,’ is it actually a case of one’s own inner healing intelligence outsmarting a medication to make sure that that message is delivered?  

He discusses:

• MAPS’ recent advisory board ruling, past ethical violations, and how training should be done
• How consent in a therapeutic relationship is an ongoing process of checking in
• How psychedelic-assisted therapy (and maybe all therapy) is simply removing obstacles so one’s own inner healing intelligence can do its job
• The importance of a culture (and training) that celebrates all therapeutic modalities as complementary: There’s a lot of uniqueness in this world, so we should embrace that  

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Peter A. Levine, Ph.D.: developer of Somatic Experiencing®, educator, and author of several best-selling books on trauma.

His most recent book, An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey, is exactly that: a change from more scholarly writing into an extremely vulnerable telling of his early childhood trauma and how he has healed over the years. He talks about how his unconscious convinced him to write the book, how trauma can move into the body, and how he needed a student to identify how his trauma was affecting him. He believes that we all have wounding, but it's how we carry these wounds and tell our truth that matters. 

He discusses: 

• The need to allow space for both Indigenous traditions and evidence-based Western frameworks
• The power of having even just one distinct moment of feeling cared for and loved
• How Colin Turnbull saw healing differently after living with an African tribe for three years
• Why he suggests 15-20 sober experiences with non-ordinary states for each drug experience
• Why not having a community or empathetic other makes us more vulnerable to trauma

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Johanna interviews Erika Dyck: author, professor, historian, Vital instructor, and research chair in the History of Health & Social Justice at the University of Saskatchewan.

Dyck talks about the book she co-edited: Women and Psychedelics: Uncovering Invisible Voices, which was released in March as a Chacruna anthology, and collects pieces from several different authors highlighting the untold or lesser known stories from women throughout psychedelic history. Albert Hofmann was the first person to intentionally ingest LSD, but who was the first woman to do so? Who were the women assisting in research or sitting with experiencers in the early days who never got the credit for their contributions? Who were the women supporting some of the biggest psychedelic names in history?

She talks about:

• The contrast in societal attitudes towards psychedelic exploration based on stereotypical gender roles
• Some of her favorite stories from the book, including a woman diagnosed with manic depression becoming one of the first guides in LSD trials
• The use of psychedelics in pregnancy and birthing practices across other cultures
• Traditional gender attributes: Are women more wired to care for others? Is there something about the psychedelic experience that’s inherently feminine?
• The importance of moving past the gender binary and implementing more diversity in research – with the challenge of needing to universalize medicine at the same time

and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Lia Mix, LMFT, CPTR: founder and CEO of Delphi, a consulting firm dedicated to the healthy growth of the psychedelic movement.

After many years of working in community mental health and 15 years in the commercial health insurance industry (where she helped to establish coverage for autism), Mix was one of the first graduates of CIIS’s training program, and after a very distinct MDMA-assisted therapy session, she wondered: “How can I be of service?” She’s since helped to launch The Board of Psychedelic Medicines and Therapies, the American Psychedelic Practitioners Association, and Enthea, and is working every day toward a more unified and uniform psychedelic space, with healthcare frameworks, official boards and certifications, consumer protections, and a general consensus that this is our responsibility to manage – not some outside regulator’s. So how can we, as a scattered psychedelic community, come together?

She discusses:

• Her path to psychedelics and how nobody was talking about how to bring psychedelics into healthcare
• The need for a unified code of ethics for any practitioner of psychedelic therapy
• The FDA, Lykos Therapeutics, and how the recent advisory committee’s recommendations on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy were largely based on fear
• How there actually is a lot of financial possibility if we can all agree on what is absolutely essential right now

and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, David interviews Kaitlin Roberson: Vital graduate and co-founder and CEO of Cacti Therapeutics, a psychedelic biotech company developing novel therapies for chronic pain; and Dr. Michele Cox, DO: current Vital student, veteran, physician, and co-founder of LifeBloom, a brand new company focusing on bringing community and connection into women’s healthcare.

They talk about their work: Roberson’s research on trauma and chronic pain, and why she feels that working in the pharma industry is a calling; and Cox’s framework as an osteopath, the value she’s found in touch and connection, and how she explains to clients what to expect when undergoing ketamine treatment.

They discuss:

• Why psychedelics are such useful interventions
• The body’s ability to tell us what’s wrong, as long we’re listening
• The destabilization that can occur after a big experience: If you don’t have a good support system, is it really the right time?
• Self-care and our tendency to never feel like we’re good enough
• How there is energy in everything and we should all recognize that more

And, as Vital students, they talk about what they hoped to get out of Vital and how it delivered more than expected. If you’re just discovering Vital, be sure to check out the website and fill out an application. Secure your spot and take advantage of the Early Bird discount! For links, head to teh show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Amanda Holley: pharmacologist and regulatory consultant in nonclinical drug development, and previously a nonclinical pharmacology/toxicology reviewer at the FDA.

With Lykos Therapeutics working towards FDA approval of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, ICER (Institute for Clinical and Economic Review) recently published its draft evidence report, concluding that they couldn't endorse this modality. While disappointing to the psychedelic space, this report doesn't determine the FDA's official stance, and also really highlights a lot about how the FDA works, the knowledge gap between consumers and regulators, and how clinical studies should be designed in the future. Holley talks about the FDA's dedication to safety and data, and how, essentially, drug development comes down to a risk/benefit analysis. 

She discusses: 

• Misconceptions about the FDA, especially related to psychedelics
• The path of a substance in early drug development and how breakthrough status works
• The complications with blinding psychedelics, the placebo effect, and how much therapy is a factor
• The contrast between productization and harm reduction: Should we be concerned with creating products, or understanding these substances better?
• How changing one molecule really does create a different drug

and much more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of Vital Psychedelic Conversations, Kyle interviews two Vital graduates: Alice Dommert: certified breathwork facilitator and co-founder of retreat company, The Infinite Center; and Kara Tremain, ACC: somatic practitioner and growth and development coach.

A huge part of Vital is the experiential aspect of attending a retreat. Students report that being part of a group process, feeling the power of the proper set and setting, taking a journey as both a sitter and experiencer, and separating from the world and connecting with each other has been one of the best parts of the program – even life-changing. With Dommert behind 13 Vital retreats to date, she and Kyle dive into what they’ve learned in how to run a successful retreat.

They discuss:

• Facilitator humility and how important it is for everyone to be on the same page
• How much additional activities can add to the experience (tea ceremonies, CrossFit, chanting, fireside chats)
• The importance of allowing enough time and space for everything, from personal time with facilitators to possible issues
• Co-creation and openness: What can facilitators and people coming to the retreat build together? How do we create the most meaningful time together?

If you’re interested in Vital, applications are now open with an Early Bird discount! And if you want to attend a Vital retreat, we have a few spots left in two: a transpersonal breathwork retreat in Pennsylvania, July 9-14, and a cannabis + breathwork retreat in Agoura Hills, CA in October. Head to the Infinite Center’s website for details. For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Charles Stang: Professor of Early Christian Thought and the Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard Divinity School.

The Center was created to gain a better understanding of world religions by bringing scholars from their respective countries to study and live alongside Divinity School students. As students and Stang started to become interested in psychedelics, a zoom series, "Psychedelics and the Future of Religion," began, and the school just hosted their second conference, "Psychedelic Intersections: Cross Cultural Manifestations of the Sacred." Next year's Psychedelics and Spirituality conference will take place February 15, 2025. 

He discusses: 

• Harvard's psychedelic history, and why it's important to not erase the past out of the interest of presumed legitimacy
• How people are consistently having extraordinary experiences with psychedelics, but not always with religion: Are people becoming less (or more) religious?
• The Immortality Key, the Eleusinian mysteries, and psychedelic enthusiasts' need to connect Christianity with psychedelics
• Psychedelics and other mystery religions, like Hermeticism and Mithraism
• Why religion is important to so many people, and how it helps us understand the "more-than-human" 

and much more. For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode – the first in the 2024 series of Vital Psychedelic Conversations – David interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC: Vital instructor and lead trainer for the Congregation for Sacred Practices; and Kara Tremain, ACC: recent Vital graduate-turned-instructor, somatic practitioner, and growth and development coach. 

In this series, we pair up a Vital instructor with a current or previous student as a way of showcasing different (and aligned) perspectives on what they feel is most vital for the psychedelic space to be discussing, while also highlighting their experiences with Vital, our 12-month training program. The next cohort begins September 17 and we're accepting applications now.  

As they are both are passionate about somatic work, they discuss: 

• The power of somatics in showing people how much our bodies and nervous systems matter, and how our thoughts are often not the main driver
• How ketamine or MDMA can help with somatic work
• How somatic sound can be, through music for journeys, sound bowls, or tuning forks: Can just the right frequency create magic?
• How somatic work is not solely about resolving trauma, but also about learning to conduct energy and use one's body as a tuning apparatus

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Alex Belser, Ph.D. and Bill Brennan, Ph.D.: psychologists, psychedelic researchers, authors, and co-creators of the EMBARK model, a framework for psychedelic therapy. 

When Belser and Brennan worked together at Cybin, they canvassed the field of psychedelic research and saw very little reporting (if any) of the manuals researchers were using, so they created the EMBARK model as a "big tent" framework – a way to understand what patients were going through from the perspective of six different clinical domains, where the clinician can go deeper into whichever domain is needed based on their specific skill sets. The EMBARK model has been used in four Cybin trials to date, and its corresponding book, EMBARK Psychedelic Therapy for Depression: A New Approach for the Whole Person (co-authored by Belser and Brennan), was released in April. 

They discuss: 

• The six domains and four ethical care cornerstones that make up EMBARK, as well as the many proposed change mechanisms that come into play
• Concerns over facilitators stepping aside and letting the medicine do the work: How much of a factor is someone's presence in the room?
• How much smaller, "little t" traumas can affect people – trauma doesn't always come from a single hallmark event
• The need for facilitators to be trained well (and trauma-informed), as it's nearly impossible to tell when an adverse outcome is coming

and more! For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, special guest host Court Wing interviews Monica Verduzco-Gutierrez, MD: professor and chair of rehabilitation medicine at UT Health San Antonio; Joel Castellanos, MD: co-founder and associate medical director of the Center for Psychedelic Research at UC San Diego; and MaryAnn Welke Lesage: a long COVID survivor who reports experiencing drastic improvement in symptoms after MDMA and psilocybin therapy.

As the world slowly recovers from COVID, many people are seeing continued or new symptoms, and while much is still not understood, these symptoms are being categorized as long COVID: essentially a persistent viral inflammation causing brain fog, headaches, depression, and other hard-to-diagnose symptoms. With estimations of as many as 18% of people in the U.S. experiencing this at one point and 6.8% currently dealing with it, could psychedelics – which can decrease inflammation and reset neural networks – help alleviate these symptoms? 

They discuss: 

• How long COVID fits into what we already know about psychedelics, pain, and inflammatory medicine
• Why MDMA or psilocybin therapy, specifically, can help
• The importance of physical medicine and rehabilitation (PM&R) and the myriad of tools these physicians have learned to work with
• Why anecdotal evidence matters towards future research

and more! 

For more info, read Lesage's article, "How Psychedelics Became Key to My Long COVID Recovery," as well as the official paper: "Long-COVID symptoms improved after MDMA and psilocybin therapy: A case report." For more links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Sean Lawlor: writer and therapist specializing in ketamine-assisted therapy at Reflective Healing in Fort Collins, CO.

His first book, Psychedelic Revival: Toward a New Paradigm of Healing, will be released on June 4. Written as somewhat of a primer for psychedelics and psychedelic therapy, he talks about how he decided to write the book, how Michael Pollan was an influence, and the importance of making psychedelic literature not boring: Research and statistics are important, but how does one relate to data points when trying to understand something so rich and weird?

He discusses:

• Studying philosophy, from Nietzsche and Freud to Jung and William James
• When a clinical frame or license is important (but can you always trust a license?)
• How context and interwoven culture matter when differentiating between plant medicines and man-made psychedelics
• Brian Muraresku’s The Immortality Key and research into ancient Greeks using psychedelics: Why do we place so much importance on proving this?
• The importance of community, rituals, shared meanings, mythology, and rites of passage and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Elliot Marseille, DrPH, MPP: founding director of UC Berkeley’s Collaborative for the Economics of Psychedelics (CEP), a network of health economists and researchers analyzing the economics behind emerging psychedelic-assisted therapies.

In the early days of drug research, efficacy was the leading factor in decision making, but as time has gone on, people are looking much more into the economics of everything: If a government is granted X amount of money, what should they spend it on that will be the most beneficial to the most people? How do you create models for future research and regulations based on the data we have now? Can there be a time in the near future when someone sits before Congress and says, “This is the exact societal cost of not making psychedelic therapy accessible”?

He discusses:

• His early work with the SABA Foundation, studying at the economics behind HIV/AIDS treatments in developing countries
• His experiences working with Ram Dass and having a big psychedelic journey with Leo Zeff
• His issues with the recent ICER (Institute for Clinical and Economic Review) report which said they couldn’t endorse MDMA-assisted psychotherapy
• Why we need more studies tracking people for long periods after psychedelic therapy, specifically analyzing their healthcare utilization over time

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of The Daschle Group: Founder and CEO, Senator Tom Daschle; and Public Policy Advisor, Charlie Panfil.

As Senator Daschle served in the House of Representatives for eight years (starting in 1978) and the Senate for 21, he was deep in the War on Drugs at its peak, and thankfully, as seen with so many of his constituents in recent years, the data and personal stories of so many healed people has broken through the propaganda and made him a strong advocate for psychedelic-assisted therapy. While minds are changing and progress is happening before our eyes (the majority of substances the FDA is currently researching for psychiatric indications contain some form of psychedelic ingredient), government bureaucracy, a severe lack of communication between the FDA and DEA, and decades of lies are still massive roadblocks. How do we address all of this while advancing research?

They discuss:

• The need to develop a partnership between the public and private sectors, mostly for the cost of treatments
• The DEA’s place in all of this: If they’re essentially a law enforcement agency, why are they involved in the safety and efficacy of medical treatments?
• The STATES Act, the Breakthrough Therapies Act, and how they can affect research
• Why we need to move past relying on opioids, and instead, embrace a science-based drug policy

and more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Simon Yugler: psychedelic-assisted therapist, educator, and author of the book, Psychedelics & the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair, which comes out this fall.

He digs into depth psychology and why it’s a beneficial framework for navigating non-ordinary experiences – a practice he believes will be the next focus in psychedelic education and understanding, alongside more analysis into the archetypes and myths that reside within (and all around) us. In an age of hyper-individualism and isolation, the stories and archetypal energies we share (which can be brought more to the forefront with psychedelics) can be incredibly healing and connecting.

He discusses:

• The challenges of reintegrating to reality after the classic Hero’s Journey, and how some people don’t want to
• The time he ate 7 grams of strong mushrooms and nothing happened, confirming to him the omnipresence of trickster energies
• Jung’s theory on individuation, and how true individuation actually creates deeper engagement with the world
• How myths offer windows into deeper realms, and a breakdown of his Mythopoetic Integration Method
• How psychedelics show us our souls, and how so much of the chaos in the world can be related to a denial of the soul

and more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, David interviews Sami Awad: Palestinian peace and nonviolent activist and founder of Holy Land Trust in Bethlehem; and Leor Roseman, Ph.D.: Israeli neuroscientist, researcher, and senior lecturer at the University of Exeter.  

They talk about Roseman's 2021 paper, "Relational Processes in Ayahuasca Groups of Palestinians and Israelis," which looked at what happened when people with fiercely different opinions moved beyond fear, anger, and othering, and sat together in a safe container and drank ayahuasca with the purpose of healing collective trauma. When the focus of the participants moved toward understanding each other, Roseman and Awad saw a unity that gave them a lot of hope, leading to the creation of their nonprofit, RIPPLES, which is focused on using psychedelics for peacebuilding – first in the Middle East, and hopefully soon, everywhere. As Awad says, "If it can happen here, it can happen almost anywhere."

They discuss: 

• The efficacy of psychedelics as a tool for nonviolent activism, building peace, and recognizing – and healing – collective trauma
• The balance between the idealistic and the practical, or 'the irony of harmony' – if you focus too much on the connectivity of psychedelics, do you actually exclude voices?
• The concept of "my liberation depends on your healing and your liberation depends on mine"
• The challenge in doing something with the hope and enthusiasm that comes after a powerful experience: How do you make sure that wave of hope continues rippling through choppy waters? 

Click here to head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project team: Director of Donor Development and founder of The Hope Project, Allison Wilson; and Director of Research and founder of Hystelica, Dr. Grace Blest-Hopley.

They discuss how The Hope Project – a nonprofit that supports spouses of veterans, Gold Star Wives, and female veterans with scholarships to psychedelic healing retreats, integration, community, etc. – merged with Heroic Hearts Project, and why this is such a necessary part of the veteran healing story: How does a family hold space for a vet returning to a suddenly alien civilian life (especially after a psychedelic journey)? How does a spouse deal with their own trauma from constant worry and isolation? Wilson and Blest-Hopley are learning that, for many spouses, having their own experience (and with other spouses) has been incredibly beneficial.

They talk about:

• The concept of secondary PTSD (often referred to as ‘compassion fatigue’) and the many ways it can manifest
• How Heroic Hearts is working with Imperial College London to use veteran retreats as real-world observational research
• The importance of involving family in the healing process, and how positive outcomes can trickle down to children
• The need for more research into how PTSD and the effects of psychedelics are different in women based on their unique physiology (as most studies have focused on men)

and more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview William Richards, STM, Ph.D.: senior advisor at Sunstone Therapies, psychologist at the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, contributor to Vital, and author of Sacred Knowledge: Psychedelics & Religious Experiences.

He talks about the first time he experienced psilocybin in a research study in 1963, his early studies on the psychology of religion, working with Abraham Maslow, how he became one of the early psychedelic therapists, and what it was like for all of that to disappear when Nixon came into office and shut everything down. He discusses his move into psychedelics and end-of-life care after seeing patients’ fear of death completely disappear, and contemplates whether psychedelics could help people prepare for death – how would we live if we no longer feared death?

He also discusses:

• How the integration of psychedelics into palliative care should be a huge step in cultural acceptance
• How psychedelics could be used for education and boosting creativity, problem solving, and even new perspectives on history and classic works
• The study of comparative religion and the potential for psychedelics to find the connections and commonality between seemingly disparate religions
• The impact of psychedelic experiences on the perception of the sacred
• How fascinating it is that the same substance, dose, and set and setting can create such incredibly different experiences

and more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Shahar Amit: psytrance musician who has created what may be the world's first modular album for psychedelic exploration under his project, Held By Sound. 

He talks about his background in the rave and festival scene, the moment he realized he wanted to make music, and the realization that he could create soundscapes specifically for journeys into non-ordinary states. And he digs into the 'choose your own adventure' framework of the free album: how he actually recorded 3 different albums and figured out how to transition into different moods based on which direction the listener wants to go – from more still to more expansive, to darker or more bittersweet. He has also created music for DMT trials in the UK, and talks a lot about the potential in extended-state DMT experiences.

He also discusses: 

• How he came up with the flow of the album related to phases of the trip
• How much of a catalyst and safe container music can be, with or without a complimentary substance
• How psychedelics in a fun, festival experience with lots of laughter can be extremely beneficial – you don't need to do them the 'correct' way
• Graham Hancock, Donald Hoffman, and the concept of consciousness as the building block of all reality
• Psytrance, classical music, traditional Bwiti music, Lady Gaga, and what music he feels is best for exploration 

and more! For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe and special guest, Court Wing, interview Tommy Aceto: former Navy Seal and trauma medic, NCAA athlete, Michigan State Champion Wrestler, and now, psychedelic advocate and ambassador for the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition.

He discusses his journey from childhood to wanting to become a SEAL, and the toll that military life and its programming can take on a person: how a life built on high levels of endurance, deprivation, and constantly surviving in a fight-or-flight mindset often manifests in Operator Syndrome, chronic pain, depression, and addiction. Veterans are seeing the potential of psychedelics to rewire their brains and allow them to process pain differently, by allowing them to feel emotions they were trained to turn off: “You’ve got to feel to heal.”

Aceto discusses:

• The affirmation and approval many who join the military seek, and how that often translates into needing to stay at certain levels of risk to truly feel alive
• The similarities between soldiers and professional athletes and high performers
• Dealing with chronic pain, and how forcing movement is often the best tactic
• The Controlled Substances Act and how opioids became a business
• Why the most important thing vets can do today is to tell their healing stories

and more! For links, head to the show notes page.