Podcasts

In this latest episode of the Drug Science Podcast, we talk with Natalia Rebollo and Jesús Alonso Olamendi of the International Center for Ethnobotanical Education, Research, and Service (ICEERS). They discuss the lasting legacy of colonialism in the psychedelic culture of indigenous communities, stressing the need for the sacredness of these substances to be uplifted and not commodified. Throughout, they explore their work with ICEER’s Ayahuasca Defense Fund and how it has begun to change the narrative surrounding psychedelics in prohibitionist countries. Operating between indigenous communities and the Western world, they provide a unique perspective that shows how both communities can learn from each other.

ICEERS

Ayahuasca Defense Fund

Ayahuasca

DMT

Ayahuasca Legal Battle in France

Technical Report on Ayahuasca

Colombia's CND68 Resolution

Ibogaine

Spanish Ibogaine Trial

Contact Email

Aspen Psychedelic Symposium 2024 – Hosted by Kevin Franciotti

This powerful panel explores the healing potential and complex responsibilities that come with working with Ibogaine, a potent plant-based psychedelic. Moderator Kevin Franciotti guides a heartfelt and informative conversation with Talia Eisenberg, Tom Feegel, and Dr. Lola "Dr. O" Hoba, highlighting personal transformation, medical protocols, and the importance of honoring traditional knowledge.

Talia Eisenberg shares her recovery from opioid addiction and the founding of BEOND Ibogaine, a medical treatment center in Cancun, Mexico. Her story illustrates the plant’s unique power to interrupt addiction and awaken purpose. Tom Feegel, co-founder and CEO of BEOND, shares how his own trauma and long-term sobriety inspired a vision for a safe, respectful, and medically supervised environment for deep healing.

Dr. Lola Hoba offers insights as a pharmacist and Yoruba herbalist, bridging traditional plant medicine knowledge with modern pharmacology. She describes how iboga works on multiple brain receptors and why it holds so much promise for treating addiction, depression, and trauma. She also cautions about its cardiac risks and calls for respectful, trained facilitation.

Panelists discuss the rigorous safety protocols at BEOND, including ICU-level care, psychiatric screening, and pre-treatment evaluations. They also explore broader questions: How can this medicine be offered responsibly? What does reciprocity mean in practice? BEOND supports Blessings of the Forest, a nonprofit in Gabon that works to stop poaching and protect Indigenous access to the sacred root.

This conversation highlights the importance of blending science, spirit, and social justice. From trauma healing to sustainable sourcing, each panelist emphasizes the need for compassion, caution, and connection. As laws change and access grows, the panel urges all involved to move forward with care—for the medicine, the people it serves, and the cultures that have stewarded it for generations.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Marlena Robbins, a proud member of the Diné (Navajo) nation and doctoral student at the UC Berkeley School of Public Health. Marlena shares her personal journey with psilocybin mushrooms and how they helped reconnect her with her heritage and family. Her research examines the cultural, social, and policy aspects of psilocybin use within Native communities, highlighting differences between urban and rural perspectives to inform educational frameworks, culturally-informed psychedelic assisted therapy models, and public health policy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-302/?ref=278

Marlena Robbins is pursuing a Doctor of Public Health degree at UC Berkeley. Her research examines the cultural, social, and policy aspects of psilocybin use within Native communities, highlighting differences between urban and rural perspectives to inform educational frameworks, culturally-informed psychedelic assisted therapy models and public health policy.

Robbins is a graduate student researcher at the Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics, focusing on program evaluation. Her residency with the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration led to the development of a tribal engagement toolkit, showcasing the significance of psychedelics in spiritual, recreational and conservative contexts among Tribal communities.

Recently, Robbins was invited to join the Federally Recognized American Tribes and Indigenous Community Working Group for the Natural Medicine Health Act with the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies. This role enables her to advocate for the protection of sacred plants against commercialization and cultural misappropriation.

Highlights:

• Finding sobriety and healthy motherhood through mushrooms
• First experience of Hozhó: beauty, harmony, and balance Reconnecting with mother through shared psychedelic healing
• Advocating for indigenous representation in psychedelic research
• Applying indigenous critical lens to psychedelic policy
• Personifying medicines as relatives with their own spirits
• Evaluating psychedelic integration in Native mental health systems
• Moving beyond capitalism toward reciprocal relationships with medicines
• Meeting ancestral trauma with courage instead of avoidance
• Building bridges between indigenous knowledge and Western healthcare

Episode Sponsors:

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.
• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

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Psychologist and longtime initiate of Tibetan Buddhism, Dr. Miles Neale enters the mind meld!

Video Version Here

Miles' new book, Return with Elixir, is available now. Miles argues that we’re amid a global initiation. This rite of passage is constellating in countless forms: Strange visitations from other intelligences, ecological collapse, the emergence of AI, a transformation in our personal and collective identities, geopolitical insanity, the list goes on. But beneath it all, there’s a pattern. A new myth, a new age emerging.  

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🌀 Website 

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Author, consciousness adventurer, Rebel Wisdom and Kainos founder Alexander Beiner returns!

Video version here

We explore the mysterious alien languages reported by seekers in altered states, as Alex shares insights from his participation in a groundbreaking extended-state DMT study. He also opens up about a profound non-dual experience encountered during a separate Imperial College research session. Along the way, we muse on the meaning crisis, the evolving face of spirituality, and what might lie beyond the veil of consensus reality.

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🎧 Sub and Review on Spotify

 👁Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

🌀 Website 

🥰 Support TED and join the community on Patreon

Psychologist and longtime initiate of Tibetan Buddhism, Dr. Miles Neale enters the mind meld!

Video Version Here

Miles' new book, Return with Elixir, is available now. Miles argues that we’re amid a global initiation. This rite of passage is constellating in countless forms: Strange visitations from other intelligences, ecological collapse, the emergence of AI, a transformation in our personal and collective identities, geopolitical insanity, the list goes on. But beneath it all, there’s a pattern. A new myth, a new age emerging.  

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🎧 Sub and Review on Spotify

 👁Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

🌀 Website 

A panel discussion with Jim Harris, Rachel Zoeller, DPT, David W. McMillan, Ph.D., and Manesh Girn, Ph.D. Recorded live at the Aspen Psychedelic Symposium

In this riveting and deeply personal conversation, moderator Jim Harris is joined by three pioneers at the intersection of neuroscience, psychedelics, and disability: Dr. Rachel Zoeller (Doctor of Physical Therapy and spinal cord injury survivor), Dr. David McMillan (Assistant Professor of Neurological Surgery at the University of Miami), and Dr. Manesh Girn (neuroscientist and postdoctoral researcher with Robin Carhart-Harris at UCSF). Together, they explore how psychedelics may do far more than treat depression or catalyze mystical experiences—they may also support healing and regeneration in the nervous system.

The discussion opens with an acknowledgment that our cultural understanding of psychedelics has mostly focused on their psychological and spiritual effects. But as these experts reveal, the somatic potential of psychedelics is vast and understudied. They delve into promising areas like central and peripheral neuroplasticity, the anti-inflammatory effects of psychedelics, and how these mechanisms might play a role in healing from spinal cord injuries or paralysis.

Dr. Girn breaks down the science behind psilocybin's interaction with 5-HT2A serotonin receptors, not only in the brain but also in the spinal cord. These receptors, when activated, may increase neuronal excitability and even help restore lost signaling in damaged motor pathways. He suggests that psychedelics could reopen “critical periods” for neuroplasticity—windows of opportunity for the nervous system to rewire and heal.

Rachel Zoeller shares her powerful lived experience as both a physical therapist and a spinal cord injury patient. Her story brings the science to life, particularly her observation that psychedelic experiences help her reconnect to parts of her body affected by paralysis. Psychedelics, she suggests, have allowed her to rebuild mind-body communication and foster compassion toward her own physical limitations. She also underscores the need for patients to cultivate body awareness, meditation, and breathwork as essential tools for safe and effective psychedelic use.

Dr. McMillan, who leads outreach at the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis, provides a clinical and safety-oriented perspective. While optimistic about the potential, he urges caution—especially with individuals who have high-level spinal cord injuries and are vulnerable to serious complications like autonomic dysreflexia. He stresses that before we can bring these treatments into clinical settings, we must carefully assess physiological risk, develop precise pharmacological protocols, and prioritize patient safety.

The panel also addresses cultural and spiritual interpretations of spasticity. Drawing on both shamanic and somatic perspectives, they propose that these involuntary muscle contractions could be reinterpreted not as dysfunction, but as potential portals for healing, integration, or neurological feedback. The idea that such spasms might help the brain remap muscle groups is discussed as a provocative and hopeful reframe.

The conversation wraps with a call to action: to bring together indigenous wisdom, embodied knowledge, rigorous science, and community storytelling in order to chart a new frontier in psychedelic medicine—one that does not leave the disabled community behind. As McMillan puts it, "There’s a lesson to psychedelia from paralysis.” It’s a reminder that neuropharmacology must consider not just molecules and mechanisms, but people and possibilities.

Whether you're a clinician, researcher, patient, or curious explorer, this panel is a moving and illuminating look at how psychedelics could transform not only minds—but bodies.

Thanks to Aspen Public Radio, Aspen Psychedelic Resource Center, Healing Advocacy Fund and Aspen Psychedelic Symposium for allowing us to share this podcast.

A full agenda from the symposium can be found here.

In this episode, Tracy Kim Townsend, MD, joins to discuss the potential efficacy of psilocybin therapy for addressing burnout, particularly in healthcare professionals. Dr. Townsend is a Harvard-trained medical doctor, licensed psilocybin facilitator, and the Co-Founder & CEO of Meadow Medicine, one of the only legal psilocybin service centers based in the U.S., founded and led by an MD.

In this conversation, Dr. Townsend gives an overview of burnout and discusses its prevalence amongst healthcare professionals due to the intense nature of these professions. She mentions the relevance of the wounded healer archetype for many physicians and how this identity can intersect with experiences of burnout. Turning to psilocybin therapy, Dr. Townsend discusses how these psychedelic treatments can help address burnout through promoting neuroplasticity and facilitating effective emotional processing. Following these experiences, patients are often much better poised to make well-considered life changes to help stave off burnout. Dr. Townsend concludes by emphasizing the importance of integration following psychedelic journeys to ensure maximal benefit and effectiveness of these treatments. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• How burnout develops

• How technology and culture have contributed to the rise of burnout

• The symptoms of burnout

• Supporting career longevity for physicians

• How psilocybin may support patients looking to address burnout

• Clinical research into psilocybin for burnout in healthcare professionals

• Why loosening the grip on one’s identity and ego dissolution may be tied to the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics

Quotes:

“One core area that I see psilocybin playing a role [for addressing burnout] is just creating these spaces where we can process emotions and integrate them.” [21:41]

“SSRIs, which are the gold standard intervention right now for depression, usually result in about a nine-point drop [in depression scores on the Montgomery-Åsberg Depression Rating Scale], which is really no better than placebo… Whereas psilocybin showed a three-fold drop—there’s really no intervention for depression we see with that dramatic of results.” [25:17]

“Another thing that I think is remarkable, too is… you continue to see the benefits—if you check scores immediately after the [psilocybin] journey and then at six months out, there continues to be improvement in mental health scores.” [29:06]

Links:

Dr. Townsend on Instagram

Dr. Townsend on X

Meadow Medicine website 

“Psilocybin Therapy for Clinicians With Symptoms of Depression From Frontline Care During the COVID-19 Pandemic: A Randomized Clinical Trial” by Anthony L. Back, MD et al.

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this special panel, Joe Moore of Psychedelics Today is joined by Sandor Iron Rope, Lakota spiritual leader and peyote practitioner, and Zach Leary, writer and advocate for psychedelic culture. Together, they explore the critical importance of respecting the cultural, spiritual, and ecological roots of plant medicines. Sandor shares powerful reflections on the Lakota worldview, the trauma of colonization, and the deep spiritual kinship indigenous peoples hold with medicinal plants. Zach reflects on the American counterculture's relationship with psychedelics, highlighting the need to preserve mysticism and community over commercialization.

The panel dives into challenges around synthetic versus natural medicines, the risks of spiritual harm when practices are rushed or disconnected from tradition, and the urgent need for indigenous voices at the table as psychedelic policy evolves. Throughout, a theme emerges: slow down, honor kinship, and build right relationship with nature, culture, and spirit.

This conversation offers a rare and necessary bridge between indigenous wisdom and the psychedelic resurgence, calling for respect, collaboration, and a return to deep roots to guide future generations.

Learn more at ipci.life and psychedelicstoday.com.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Sam Mandel, co-founder and CEO of Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA). Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-301-sam-mandel/?ref=278 Sam shares his journey co-founding KCLA with his father in 2014, pioneering ketamine infusion therapy when few were exploring its potential for mental health. From humble beginnings in a storage closet to becoming a leading mental health center with over 30,000 infusions administered, Sam discusses the challenges and triumphs of building a patient-centric practice. He explains the science behind ketamine's effectiveness compared to alternatives like Spravato, highlights the importance of individualized treatment, and offers a passionate critique of the current mental healthcare system while envisioning what meaningful reform could look like.

Co-founder & CEO of Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA), Sam Mandel has channeled his lifelong passion for healthcare advocacy into transforming mental health care. From volunteering at a teen-to-teen suicide prevention hotline at twelve to pioneering one of the foremost Ketamine Infusion Therapy clinics in 2014 alongside his father, Dr. Steven L. Mandel, Sam has been featured in Entrepreneur's Top 10 Inspiring Healthcare Entrepreneurs (2023) and earned two 2024 Stevie Awards. Under his leadership, KCLA has provided over 30,000 infusions to more than 6,000 patients with an 83% success rate, establishing gold-standard treatment protocols while expanding services to include General Psychiatry and TMS therapy. Highlights: 

• The founding story of KCLA and early skepticism from the medical community
• Why IV ketamine outperforms nasal Spravato in efficacy and cost-efficiency
• Creating individualized ketamine protocols for optimal patient outcomes
• How insurance companies create barriers to effective mental healthcare
• KCLA's 83% success rate compared to 50-70% in controlled research settings
• Expanding from ketamine to TMS and general psychiatry
• Preparing for future psychedelic medicines like MDMA and psilocybin
• The critical flaws in America's mental healthcare system

Episode Links: 

• Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA)
• The difference between Ketamine and Spravato (esketamine)
• Third Wave’s Ultimate Guide to Ketamine

Episode Sponsor:

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

This podcast comes from the Aspen Psychedelic Symposium from last summer. It features Diane Goldstein who is the executive director of Law Enforcement Action Partnership, Sarko Gergerian a police officer from Winthrop, Mass and Rick Doblin from MAPS.

This panel was introduced by Zach Leary and was a highlight of our trip to Aspen's conference last year.

We discuss new ways in which police should or could consider psychedelics and drugs more generally.

Thanks to Aspen Public Radio and Aspen Psychedelic Symposium for allowing us to share this podcast.

Tune in to the latest episode of the drug science podcast where David Nutt meets with Tim Kerr, a doctoral research student in Psychiatry at King’s College London. Tim discusses his journey from slowly falling into drug addiction and dealing whilst studying for his medical degree eventually leading to arrest and imprisonment. Tim shares how he used this time in an open prison to apply for and study a Neuroscience masters with Kings College London with the support of the Longford trust, a charity that supports people with lived experience of prison to access higher education.

 
 The Longford Trust

Howard League for Penal Reform

NHS Practitioner Health

Alcoholic liver disease

Jaundice

Ecstasy

Ketamine

Cocaine

Freud and cocaine

Nitrous oxide

GHB 

Spice

Weed

Venlafaxine

Modafinil 

Open and closed Prison

Alcoholics Anonymous

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Simon Ruffell, a psychiatrist, ayahuasca researcher, and student of curanderismo.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-300/?ref=278

Simon shares his transformative journey from being a skeptical Western psychiatrist to embracing the spiritual dimensions of plant medicine after experiencing what he describes as an "ontological shock" during an ayahuasca ceremony. He discusses his ongoing apprenticeship with Shipibo curanderos in the Amazon, his research into ayahuasca's effects on mental health and epigenetics, and his work bridging indigenous wisdom with Western scientific understanding. Dr. Ruffell explores the differences between Western medical approaches and traditional healing practices, highlighting how the Shipibo focus on harmony and balance rather than fixing specific problems. Through his organization Onaya, he conducts reciprocal research with indigenous communities, studying how ayahuasca affects veterans with PTSD and examining the epigenetic changes that may explain its profound healing effects.

Dr. Simon Ruffell is trained across three modalities: Western medicine (as a medical doctor specializing in psychiatry), research psychology (with a PhD in Amazonian ayahuasca and mental health), and traditional plant medicine (as a student of curanderismo). He is the Chief Medical Officer of MINDS, a nonprofit research organization exploring the potential of psychedelics and consciousness practices to address humanity's greatest challenges.

Since 2015, his work has focused primarily on exploring ayahuasca while collaborating with indigenous communities in the Amazon basin. He is the CEO of Onaya and founded the nonprofit Onaya Science, which researches the effects of ayahuasca in naturalistic Amazonian settings. Dr. Ruffell's work seeks to understand plant medicines from both Indigenous and Western perspectives, and he is currently training in Shipibo Shamanism under Don Rono Lopez.

Highlights:

• A spiritual attack during ceremony that shifted his perspective on reality
• Bridging indigenous wisdom with Western scientific research
• The difference between psychedelic guides and trained shamans
• Ayahuasca and epigenetics: clearing ancestral trauma
• How traditional medicine evolves and adapts over time
• Remarkable PTSD treatment outcomes with veterans
• Approaching healing as returning to harmony
• EEG research during ceremonial Icaros singing
• Shamans as navigational experts of the psychedelic realm
• When to choose Western medicine vs. traditional approaches

Episode Links:

• Dr. Simon Ruffell's Website
• Onaya
• Onaya Science

Episode Sponsor

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode Kyle Buller and Joe Moore speak to Zach Leary about his new book "Your Extraordinary Mind: Psychedelics in the 21st Century and How to Use Them".

Kyle and Joe join Zach in person for this recording.

Zach has lots of hard earned wisdom and gracefully shares it with us and with his readers.

We discuss MAPS PS25, Psychedelic Churches, psychedelic overuse and much more.

Join us to learn more.

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Jesse Michels of American Alchemy enters the mind meld!

Video Episode here

** Get 50% off of your Magic Mind potions here! Coupon code, THIRDEYE50 **

** Join us at Contact in the Desert! use code THIRDEYE10 for 10%  **

Jesse joins me to riff on the link between the UFO phenomena and ancient esoteric wisdom. We also speculate about so-called "psionic assets," psi phenomena, consciousness, exotic propulsion systems, and more.

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In this episode, Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW, MSW, MLIS joins to discuss the use of psychedelics to address chronic illness. Christina is an international psychotherapist, coach, writer and artist, who specializes in treating clients with chronic illness, and complex trauma utilizing various modalities, including psychedelic assisted therapy.

In this conversation, Christina overviews the complex mental and physical health impacts of chronic pain conditions and shares her expertise on psychedelic and non-psychedelic treatments for these conditions. Christina mentions that chronic pain can put one’s body in a state that encourages fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses which can disempower the patient’s efforts to address their condition. She also explores the intersection of identity and chronic pain conditions, discussing how that while receiving a particular diagnosis can be helpful and affirming, taking this as a core part of one’s identity can also be a major roadblock to healing. In closing, Christina emphasizes that pain starts in the brain, so leveraging neuroplasticity through psychedelics and other means can be a particularly powerful way to address both physical and mental health aspects of chronic pain conditions. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How Christina got involved in working with patients with chronic pain

• The common mental health presentations in those with chronic pain

• The importance of addressing physical health and mental health concurrently 

• Why psychedelics may be helpful for addressing chronic pain conditions

• The immunomodulating effects of psychedelics

• The power of neuroplasticity for addressing chronic pain 

• Utilizing neural retraining and microdosing in conjunction to prepare for more successful higher dose psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“I use all kinds of modalities and I don’t just treat someone’s depression or anxiety or complex trauma—I see it as everything is interwoven and related to each other. And it’s important that we look at the entirely mosaic piece rather than just focusing on one area.” [5:20]

“There is a state of empowerment versus disempowerment in identifying with our chronic illness. I’m not saying that it is not real and it's not happening to you but it definitely is not you. It’s something you are experiencing. Even if it’s chronic and lifelong, it’s still something you are experiencing—it’s not you as a whole.” [17:48]

“I’ve noticed that any of my clients who have gone through neural retraining have had little to no bad [psychedelic] trips which is amazing and I feel like that’s partly because they worked so hard to resource themselves in advance.” [25:19]

Links:

Christina on Instagram

Christina on LinkedIn

Begin with Today website

When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stress by Gabor Maté

PMA CME/CE accredited course: Managing Medical Risk in Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy

Search for providers on the Psychology Today website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joe Moore welcomes LP Giobbi, an internationally famous DJ, electronic music producer, and jazz pianist. LP shares the story behind Dead House, her project blending Grateful Dead samples with house music. What started as a tribute to her parents during pandemic live streams has become a celebrated musical movement.

Joe and LP explore the deeper connection between music and psychedelics. They talk about Bicycle Day, the story of Albert Hofmann’s famous LSD bike ride, and how psychedelics can support creativity and personal growth. LP opens up about her own experiences with psychedelics, touring burnout, and how she’s learning to reconnect with her body through music and intention.

The conversation also highlights LP’s work with Fem House, an educational platform that empowers women and gender-expansive individuals in music production. She explains how representation, access, and support are key to shifting the music industry.

This is a warm, inspiring, candid episode about breaking barriers, finding your voice, and leading purposefully. If you’re in Denver, catch Dead House live at Meow Wolf on Bicycle Day!

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Video version highly recommended, watch here!

In the 1970s, strange things were happening behind the scenes of America’s most secretive classified programs. Nuclear scientists with top secret clearance began reporting glowing orbs and terrifying poltergeist activity tormenting them in the night. The CIA was running a classified psychic spy unit, training people to "see" inside enemy territory thousands of miles away. Fresh on the scene was Uri Geller. A flamboyant Israeli psychic who claimed he could bend spoons with his mind and read thoughts. The CIA investigated Geller and decided to study him But was he really gifted or a fraud? Or worse—a double agent. Pat Price, one of history's most talented remote viewers. Price uncovered secrets so sensitive they triggered panic across intelligence circles. Then, just as the CIA was about to bring Price further into the fold, tragedy struck. In Chapter 11 of Phenomena, Annie Jacobsen dives into the murky world where paranormal research, Cold War espionage, and high-stakes secrecy collide.

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In this episode, Kyle Buller speaks with Kayse Geheret, founder of Microdosing for Healing and instructor for Psychedelics Today’s Vital program. They explore what it means to be a modern guide in the world of psychedelics. Kayse shares how microdosing has become a key entry point for many and highlights the importance of training, community, and personal growth.

They discuss how not all psychedelic work involves facilitation. Some guides support through integration, education, or community organizing. The conversation covers what makes a great guide—qualities like groundedness, empathy, curiosity, and the ability to hold space. They also talk about the growing need for psychedelic-literate professionals in all fields, not just therapy.

Kayse and Kyle reflect on the importance of finding the right training—whether for coaching, integration, or peer support. With more people entering the space, education and connection are more important than ever.

Whether you’re curious about microdosing, thinking of becoming a guide, or simply want to better support your community, this episode offers valuable insight.

🎧 Learn more at microdosingforhealing.com 🌱 Discover Vital at vitalpsychedelictraining.com

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Raymond Turpin, a psychologist and psychedelic researcher who has been studying these medicines since 1984. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcasts/episode-299/?ref=278 Dr. Turpin shares his journey from discovering Timothy Leary's writings as a college student to founding the Pearl Psychedelic Institute in North Carolina. He discusses his experience as one of only two sites nationwide to provide MDMA-assisted therapy through the FDA's expanded access program, the profound healing he witnessed in patients with treatment-resistant PTSD, and the challenges faced after the FDA's rejection of MDMA therapy in 2024. 

Through stories of clinical breakthroughs, educational initiatives, and recovery efforts following Hurricane Helene, Dr. Turpin offers insights into the evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine and his hope for its future integration into mainstream mental healthcare.

Dr. Raymond Turpin is the Executive Director and Clinical Director of the Pearl Psychedelic Institute in western North Carolina. He has been studying and researching psychedelics since 1984 and earned his doctorate in clinical psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Dr. Turpin served as an investigator in an Expanded Access program providing MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for treatment-resistant PTSD and has worked with ketamine-assisted therapy while providing psychedelic integration services. Since 2022, he has been a Mentor for the Certificate in Psychedelic Therapy and Research program at CIIS. His clinical experience spans psychiatric hospitals, emergency units, residential treatment facilities, schools, and community mental health clinics.

Highlights:

• A psychedelic calling that began in 1984
• How a mushroom trip changed his career path
• When conventional mental health tools fall short
• MDMA's remarkable results with treatment-resistant PTSD
• From 71 to 18: Dramatic PTSD symptom reduction
• The FDA rejection: A devastating setback
• Hurricane Helene's impact on Asheville's healing community
• Why psychedelics threaten traditional mental health paradigms
• Turning trauma's irritant into a pearl of wisdom
• Education as resistance against misinformation

Episode links: 

• The Pearl Psychedelic Institute
• The Pearl Institute YouTube channel
• California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) Certificate in Psychedelic Therapy and Research program
• Webinar: MDMA-Assisted Therapy for PTSD: Expanded Access & Beyond
• Timothy Leary's autobiography "Flashbacks" (1984)

Episode Sponsor:

• The Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

Joe Moore sits down with UK-based artist Harry Pack, whose vibrant, surreal, and often psychedelic art has captured the attention of dreamers, psychonauts, and seekers worldwide. Known for channeling the aesthetic of altered states rather than simply replicating them, Harry discusses his journey from childhood doodles to being a full-time artist working digitally in Procreate. He shares stories of deep inspiration from figures like Ott—whose album Hiraeth he recently illustrated—and how art has helped him integrate mystical experiences, recovery, and even potential alien contact.

The conversation explores the therapeutic potential of art, the role of storytelling in visionary creativity, and the emergence of recurring themes in Harry’s work—most notably, the enigmatic “Purple UFO.” We also get into the importance of community, nature, and play in feeding the creative spirit, and Harry’s aspirations to build spaces for collective art-making and integration.

Follow Harry on Instagram @harrypackart and @thepurpleufo, and explore his work at harrypackart.com.

Join us in the latest episode of the Drug Science Podcast where David Nutt meets with Psychedelic psychotherapy experts Laurie Higbed and Owain Winfield to dive into how to use psychedelics in psychotherapy. In this episode, they discuss the different techniques used with different psychedelics for different conditions to optimise this type of therapy and why these differences are necessary. They discuss MDMA, Ketamine and Psilocybin in a range of applications including trauma and addictions.

MDMA

Ketamine

Psilocybin

Substance Misuse

PTSD

MAPS

MDMA study into Substance Use Disorder

Compass Pathways

Compass Pathways Psilocybin for Treatment Resistant Depression

Awakn life sciences

Amygdala

Link in show notes

Hakim Isler enters the mind meld!

Video Episode here

Hakim is a former Psyop and Special Ops soldier in the US Army. He's interested in both practical ESP techniques and the history of the military and intelligence agencies' interest in the phenomenon. Hakim has learned remote viewing firsthand from famous program participants like Joe McMoneagle.  Hakim is also spearheading an in intriguing event called Psi Games, which he describes as the psychic olympics. It’s a tournament and conference that aims to illuminate and push the boundaries of psi phenomena like remote viewing and psychokinesis. 

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In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with South African ethnobotanist and healer Jean-François Sobiecki to explore the rich and largely underrecognized world of African psychoactive plants. With over two decades of fieldwork and research, Jean-François sheds light on the traditional use of these plants in healing, divination, and spiritual practices across Southern Africa.

Topics covered include:

• Jean-François’s early inspirations and the ancestral roots of his herbal knowledge
• His discovery and documentation of 306 African psychoactive plant species
• The ritual use of Ubuwalu (dream-enhancing emetic infusions) and their role in personal transformation
• How vomiting, dietary restrictions, and sensory isolation are used as part of initiation processes
• Cross-cultural parallels between Southern African and Amazonian plant healing traditions
• The underexplored use of psychoactive plants to treat mental health conditions like schizophrenia and hysteria
• Ethical fieldwork, indigenous knowledge protection, and the dangers of overharvesting sacred plants
• Visions for healing and conservation gardens in Africa and the role these plants could play in global mental health

Jean-François shares moving stories of his 15-year mentorship with a Northern Sotho diviner and healer, Letti Ponnya, and how she introduced him to African “plant teacher” medicines. His message is clear: Africa has a deep, sophisticated, and scientifically underappreciated tradition of psychoactive plant use that deserves recognition, respect, and further study.

📘 Get the book: African Psychoactive Plants: Journeys in Phytoalchemy

🌐 Learn more at: phytoalchemy.co.za

📝 Related reading: ➡️ African Psychoactive Plants: Journeys in Phytoalchemy – Chacruna

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Katelyn Kalstein, a licensed naturopathic doctor, acupuncturist, and psychotherapist specializing in integrative mental health and psychedelic medicine. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-298/?ref=278 Dr. Kalstein shares her journey from growing up with natural remedies to her transformative experiences in India and Brazil, where she first encountered ayahuasca and joined the Santo Daime church. She discusses her unconventional career path through naturopathic medicine, neurofeedback at 40 Years of Zen, and as Clinical Director at Field Trip Health in Los Angeles. Dr. Kalstein offers valuable insights on the importance of community in healing, the limitations of current medical models, and why psychoanalytic theory remains essential in psychedelic work. 

Through her experiences with various modalities, she illuminates the path toward a more integrated approach to mental health that honors both traditional wisdom and modern science.

Dr. Katelyn Kalstein is a licensed Naturopathic Doctor, acupuncturist, and psychotherapist specializing in ketamine assisted psychotherapy. The former Clinical Director of Field Trip Health in Los Angeles, Dr. Kalstein has seen hundreds of patients through ketamine treatment, both as a prescriber and a therapist. She is certified in Psychedelic Therapy and Research (CIIS) and looks forward to utilizing MDMA and psilocybin therapy when they become legally available.

Starting her career in primary care medicine, Dr. Kalstein is passionate about an integrative approach to mental health care - treating mind, body and spirit. In addition to formal training, Dr. Kalstein has over 20 years of personal experience with psychedelics and meditation, traveling to India, Peru and Brazil for over a decade in order to study with various spiritual teachers and shamans. She has a deep respect for indigenous knowledge and mindfully integrates these teachings into her modern clinical practice.  

Driven by a passion for the safe and ethical use of psychedelics, she views these medicines as powerful catalysts for personal and planetary change.

Highlights:

• Her grandfather's natural medicine influence
• First ayahuasca experience—in an Indian ashram
• The Santo Daime church experience
• Shaving her head and following a guru
• Disillusionment with conventional medicine
• Neurofeedback vs. psychedelic experiences
• Field Trip's clinical model challenges
• Psychoanalysis in psychedelic integration
• Understanding healthy ego development
• Nashville's emerging psychedelic community

Episode links: 

• Website
• Instagram: @drkatelynkalstein
• Simply Being Therapy (Nashville)

Episode Sponsor:

• The Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this inspiring and far-reaching conversation, Joe Moore is joined by Vince Kadlubek, the founder and Chief Visionary Officer of Meow Wolf, the groundbreaking arts and entertainment company known for its massive, immersive art experiences. Together, they dive deep into Meow Wolf’s humble DIY origins, its evolution into a multi-city creative juggernaut, and how it intertwines with psychedelic culture and expanded states of consciousness.

Vince shares the story of Meow Wolf’s formation in Santa Fe, the evolution from a group of passionate friends into a thousand-person company, and the power of belief, creativity, and visionary leadership. He reflects on raising funding from George R. R. Martin and major investors, navigating massive growth, and the challenge of keeping the creative spark alive in the face of institutionalization.

They also discuss the upcoming Bicycle Day Portal Takeover at Meow Wolf Denver on April 19, which will feature performances, talks, and immersive experiences throughout the exhibition—with appearances from Reggie Watts, Duncan Trussell, Zach Leary, and more.

From the imaginative to the esoteric, Vince and Joe explore the intersection of psychedelics and art, the nature of reality and the imaginal realm, and how to build beauty and wonder into the world around us.

• What Meow Wolf is and how it all began
• Growing from a DIY collective to a nationwide phenomenon
• Maintaining creative spirit through growth and structure
• Vision, belief, and the spiritual work of creating art
• Navigating private equity and big funding in the arts
• Santa Fe’s unique cultural and energetic imprint
• Portal’s Bicycle Day event at Meow Wolf Denver
• Fictional character sentience and AI in immersive worlds
• Art as a cultural response in times of uncertainty
• Psychedelics as tools for accessing the imaginal and creative realms

Hosted by Portal, this one-of-a-kind immersive celebration of Bicycle Day takes over the entire Meow Wolf Denver space. Expect DJs, speakers, psychedelic storytelling, ecstatic dance, art, and surprises around every corner.

Featured Guests Include:

• Reggie Watts
• Duncan Trussell
• LP GIOBI (Dead House)
• Zach Leary
• David Satori (Dirtwire)
• Frick Frack Blackjack
• Dennis Walker
• Veronica Lightning Horse Perez
• …and many more to be announced!

🌀 Plus: Pre-event Bicycle Day bike ride through Denver, curated by Portal.

• Learn more about Meow Wolf
•  
• Check out Portal Events for Bicycle Day details

If you love what we do, please share this episode, leave a review, and consider supporting us in our Navigators Program.

Episode 05 - Mary Olivar and Olivia MacDonell: The ACT Conference

This episode of the podcast features an all new interview with Mary Olivar and Oliva MacDonell, two powerful women from our community here in Austin. They are the co-founders of a new conference called The ACT Conference (Activation, Collaboration, Transformation) which is the first conference designed for facilitators and by facilitators. Our talk covered so much ground ranging from their personal stories, indigenous cultures and medince work, ehtical conundrums in the psychedelic space and so much more. Mary and Olivia are inspirational models for how to work and thrive in the psychedelic space.

The ACT confernece is on May 14-15 in Austin. Tickets are available here:

https://actevents.net/

Olivia MacDonell is a passionate advocate for intentional leadership, psychedelic integration, and the transformative power of aftercare. As the founder of TAP Integration, the first software platform built for facilitators by facilitators, Olivia is at the forefront of developing groundbreaking technology designed to support individuals in their psychedelic integration journey. TAP Integration empowers facilitators to track clients' progress, provide tailored aftercare, and foster hands-on involvement in the technology, ensuring sustainable and meaningful change.

With years of experience working in the psychedelic space, Olivia has become a trusted educator, integration specialist, and speaker on the intersection of psychedelics and personal growth. She is a frequent panelist at major industry events, including SXSW, where she shares her expertise on the vital role of integration in psychedelic therapy.

Olivia's work extends beyond the app, she is also focused on building a supportive ecosystem for psychedelic facilitators, therapists, and their clients. Her commitment to accessibility and expanding the reach of psychedelic aftercare has earned her recognition as a leader in this emerging field.

Olivia's mission is clear: to help individuals connect deeply with themselves, their purpose, and the world around them, creating lasting impact through the power of psychedelics and integration.

Mary Olivar is a mission-driven leader, strategist, and connector dedicated to promoting harmony. With over 30 years of experience, she has empowered organizations to align with their core values, foster community well-being, and drive meaningful change.

As the former "Healthy Eating Guru" at Whole Foods Market, Mary inspired thousands to take charge of their health. She has been a trailblazer in emerging wellness industries, serving as an investor, educator, and advisor. She is a passionate advocate for Indigenous communities, recognizing their role as stewards of sacred plant medicines and spiritual traditions.

Mary is the Executive Director of the Center for Shamanic Education and Exchange, where she focuses on generating resources to sustain Indigenous wisdom and practices. She has studied with the Wixarika Huichol in Mexico and the Shipibo Conibo in Peru, deepening her connection to ancestral knowledge. A sought-after speaker, she also serves as an advisor for SXSW.

A community- builder and super-connector, Mary thrives on value-aligned partnerships that elevate consciousness and drive systemic change. Whether leading organizations, moderating discussions, or supporting purpose-led initiatives, she brings vision, integrity, and impact to every endeavor. Based in Austin, Texas, she also leads song circles and water blessings, and cherishes time with her three children.

In this episode, Jerónimo Mazarrasa joins to discuss how to interpret visions and insights disclosed during ayahuasca journeys more effectively. Jerónimo is Program Director at ICEERS, founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator of AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies.

To start, Jerónimo emphasizes that answering the question of whether ayahuasca visions originate in the plant medicine itself or if these are just disclosures of one’s own subconscious is actually not what's most important. Instead, he suggests that in either case, what is crucial is spending time carefully considering how one should respond to these disclosures. Jerónimo shares insights from expert facilitators on how one can best go about interpreting and responding to such experiences, suggesting that an important aspect of this process is that participants feel comfortable taking personal responsibility for whatever decisions they eventually decide to make rather than thinking of these major life changes as necessary consequences of the psychedelic experience itself. In closing, Jerónimo discusses the tension between externalization and psychologization of psychedelic experiences and why both of these can lead to issues. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• The common experience of feeling as though the ayahuasca has communicated something to you

• Examples of where taking an ayahuasca vision literally can lead to problematic outcomes 

• The “three confirmations” one should look for before making a major decision based on a psychedelic experience

• The metaphor of ayahuasca as a microscope

• How skilled ayahuasca facilitators ensure proper psychological hygiene with participants

• Judging the validity of potential repressed memories that seem to surface during psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“The way that ayahuasca becomes useful for people, I think, is that it shows you—it amplifies and shows you—what is already inside of yourself. Now, this is very useful for certain things but one has to understand the nature of the language.”  [9:23]

“Facilitators should instruct their participants that one rule is that you shouldn’t make any decisions during an ayahuasca ceremony—unless they are decisions related to taking yourself out of danger.” [14:42]

“Ayahuasca is not a shortcut for personal development—it’s just a flashlight that can help you shed some light on some darker parts of [your] issues and problems, but it is not a shortcut.” [35:47]

“The main contraindication of psychedelics is not wanting to take psychedelics. You should absolutely never ever ever ever ever take psychedelics if you don’t want to because it is going to be horrible. It’s like a kiss—when you want it, its beautiful, intimate, gorgeous; when you don’t want it, it's the most intrusive, disgusting, blech thing ever.” [50:27]

Links:

Jerónimo on Instagram

Jerónimo on Facebook

ICEERS Academy website

ICEERS Academy on Instagram

AyaSafety course 

Previous episode: Guruism and Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams

Previous episode: Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joe interviews Fayzan Rab, an MD candidate (when we recorded) at Emory University with a background in tech at Google and a focus on the intersection of psychedelics, spirituality, and public health. Fayzan shares Emory’s unique approach to psychedelic studies, emphasizing spiritual health and the lived religious and existential aspects of psychedelic experiences—what he and his team call “CERT.”

The conversation explores Fayzan’s collaboration with health economist Elliot Marseille on economic modeling for psilocybin therapy, including their estimate that over 5 million Americans could be medically eligible. He shares insights into the policy challenges around payer systems and the importance of preparing implementation strategies before FDA approval.

Fayzan also discusses his groundbreaking research on Muslim perspectives on psychedelics—revealing surprising openness, complex spiritual tensions, and a strong interest in integrating these substances into healing and faith-based frameworks. He highlights the need for inclusive infrastructure and upcoming work with clergy to deepen the conversation.

Finally, they explore non-clinical psychedelic use among healthcare workers and entrepreneurs, discussing how psychedelics are being used to address burnout, identity, and life purpose.

This is a powerful episode about interdisciplinary collaboration, cultural sensitivity, and the potential for psychedelics to transform not just individuals—but systems.

Science on Spiritual Health Symposium 2025

Center for Psychedelics and Spirituality - Emory University

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes New York Times bestselling author Norman Ohler.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-297/?ref=278

Norman shares his deep research into the hidden history of LSD, revealing the untold connections between Arthur Stoll (CEO of Sandoz), Nazi Germany, and the CIA's MKUltra program. He explains how LSD's development as a mental health medicine was derailed by intelligence agencies seeking a "truth drug" for interrogations, and how the substance traveled from Swiss laboratories to Nazi concentration camps and eventually to American universities. Norman also discusses his personal connection to psychedelics through his mother's Alzheimer's treatment with microdosing, and offers thoughtful reflections on the current psychedelic renaissance.

Norman Ohler is one of Germany's best living writers: a New York Times Bestselling author, translated into over 30 languages. His books include "Blitzed", "The Bohemians", and "Tripped". He has 2 children and lives in Berlin.

Highlights:

• Welcome & introduction
• Who is Arthur Stoll, the grandfather of psychedelics?
• The Nazi Germany and LSD connection
• Albert Hoffman's complicated relationship with LSD
• The pharmaceutical politics behind psychedelic suppression
• Reflections on the modern psychedelic renaissance
• The challenges of psychedelics in a globalized society
• From "Blitzed" to "Tripped": Norman's research journey
• Norman's personal connection: Microdosing for Alzheimer's
• The mysterious story of JFK and LSD

Episode Links:

• Website
• Instagram: @normanohler
• Norman’s book "Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age"
• Norman’s previous book "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich"
• Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

Get your Gallowglass esoteric books before they're gone! 

Anthropologist, science writer, and author, Dr. Eric Wargo enters the mind meld!

Video Episode  

What if we have our concept of time all wrong? What if the future can influence the past retrocausally? What if precognition, synchronicity and remote viewing are evidence of that fact? Eric Wargo explores and argues for these ideas at length in his book, Timeloops. In his latest, Becoming Timefaring, Wargo explores time paradoxes, time travel, the possibility that the UFO phenomenon is related to time-traveling future humans, and much more.

🥰 Support TED and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts 

🎧 Sub and Review on Spotify

 👁Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

🌀 Website 

In this episode, we meet with Bessel van Der kolk, a trauma based psychiatrist, author, researcher and educator. Since the 1970s his research has been in the area of post-traumatic stress and he is the author of four books including best seller “the body keeps score”. Within this episode, he dives into what trauma is and different research into the impact trauma can have on the body and brain. He further discusses various traditional and alternative treatments for trauma and where these may be appropriate for different people with specific emphasis on EMDR and MDMA.

The body keeps score 

Nutt's paper lancet psychiatry 50 years of failure 

MDMA 

SSRI

EMDR 

Gaba

Benzodiazepines

Rorschach test

Norepinephrine 

Bowlby 

MAPS

When the spirit catches you, you fall down

Neuroplasticity 

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Kyle Buller is joined by Dr. Hannah McLane, founder of the SoundMind Center and SoundMind Institute. They dive deep into the evolving psychedelic landscape—touching on policy developments in New Jersey, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and beyond. Dr. McLane shares her experience testifying in support of psilocybin legislation and discusses the medical frameworks being explored, particularly in contrast to Oregon and Colorado’s models.

The conversation also explores the essential qualities of effective psychedelic facilitators, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, lifelong learning, and doing personal inner work. Dr. McLane offers insights into the challenges of entrepreneurship in the psychedelic space, balancing mission-driven work with sustainability, and how neurodiversity and trauma have shaped her approach.

Toward the end, the conversation takes a playful and heartfelt turn, reflecting on parenting, the power of curiosity, and the need for more community-centered, human-first spaces for integration and healing. This is a rich, honest, and inspiring dialogue that bridges the personal and political, the clinical and ceremonial, and the visionary future of psychedelics.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Tracy Townsend, a Harvard-trained physician who left orthopedic surgery to become a licensed psilocybin facilitator in Oregon.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-296/?ref=278

Dr. Townsend shares her journey from conventional medicine to psychedelic facilitation, describing how her own transformative experiences with plant medicines led her to question the limitations of Western healthcare. She discusses the Oregon psilocybin model, challenges within the current regulatory framework, and draws fascinating parallels between physical surgery and the "mind surgery" of psychedelic experiences. Dr. Townsend also explores emerging research on psychedelics for autoimmune conditions and shares her hopes for policy changes that could expand access to these powerful healing modalities.

Dr. Tracy Townsend is a Harvard trained medical doctor, licensed psilocybin facilitator, and vitality coach. She has an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, as well as a medical degree, both from the University of Virginia. She completed orthopedic surgical training at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles, CA and a fellowship in pediatric orthopedic surgery at Boston Children's Hospital of Harvard University. She is a graduate of the Innertrek Psilocybin Facilitator training program. After personally experiencing transformative healing with psychedelic medicines, Tracy went on to become the Co-Founder and CEO of Project Circle, a legal psilocybin service center and practice based in Portland, Oregon.

Highlights:

• From surgeon to psychedelic facilitator: Tracy's journey
• The parallels between surgery and psychedelic "mind surgery"
• Navigating Oregon's legal psilocybin framework
• Addressing necessary regulatory improvements
• Psychedelics and psychiatric medications
• The mind-body connection in autoimmune healing
• Hope for psychedelic policy under new HHS leadership