Podcasts

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, East Forest joins to discuss several aspects at the intersection of music and psychedelics, including how he created the music that so many have used when facilitating psychedelic journeys. East Forest’s latest project, a feature length documentary film called Music For Mushrooms, follows him through the psychedelic renaissance on a mission to pair music with psychedelics to bring about transformative healing to a world in crisis.

In this conversation, East Forest discusses how he first got started making music for psychedelic journeys and the considerations that go into curating the right sound to best support these types of deep inner experiences. He emphasizes the importance of avoiding music that sounds overly sentimental and lacks the depth and richness important for effective psychedelic exploration. He also discusses the importance of maintaining the container, whether in the context of psychedelic facilitation or purely music-focused ceremonies, and suggested that sternness and fortitude have an important function in this context. In closing, East Forest suggests that music is so powerful because of the way it is able to be a point of connection to integrate experiences and bring people together.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Composing soundtracks for psychedelic journeys with different substances

• Integrating nature sounds into compositions

• Flow states and music

• Bringing live elements of music and sound into a psychedelic ceremony

• Singing as a regulating technique during a psychedelic journey

• The intersection of music, technology, and psychedelics

Quotes:

“If we look at psychedelic experiences and ceremonies from indigenous use, all of them that I know of were guided by music.” [3:16]

“I think it’s more the intention behind the music. I don’t think there’s a particular thing you have to do or not do, but I don’t think you can just play any music. So I think it’s the intention of the music and the intention of the room and the intention of the participants… There has to be an invitation on all of those fronts for that doorway to open.” [16:11]

“I think we’re looking for music and for space that is supportive of that through-line and gives us enough time to be in a process—and that’s another advantage of having these longform, intentional, bespoke songs because they are probably going to give more of that time and space for these processes to occur.” [32:43]

Links:

East Forest’s website

East Forest on Instagram

East Forest on Tik Tok

Music for Mushrooms documentary website

Music for Mushrooms Official Documentary Soundtrack

Winter Solstice Retreat at Esalen

Music for Psychedelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Kyle interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves.

Cappello discusses the current challenges and controversies facing a ketamine industry that has moved much faster than anyone anticipated, and stresses the need to create industry-wide standards – especially for at-home ketamine – before the government imposes its own standards on us. Citing the Matthew Perry case and other bad behavior from providers, he talks about the risks of overpromising and underdelivering, the lack of integration in the majority of at-home ketamine frameworks, and how profit-driven, subscription model motives have overshadowed patient care and ethical practices.

He also discusses:

• The complications from personal perspectives and passions shifting after a psychedelic experience, and how that can change over time
• The FDA’s recent rejection of MDMA: What would have happened to MDMA if it had been approved?
• Hope for more Native American churches, and what they can learn from the DEA’s denial of Soul Quest
• The story of a bump of cocaine ruining the hope for cannabis to be decriminalized under the Carter administration
• Our current Wild West of gas station CBD, Delta-8, and barely-regulated vapes

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Carlos Tanner, founder and director of the Ayahuasca Foundation in Iquitos, Peru.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-277-carlos-tanner/?ref=278 

Carlos shares his transformative journey from addiction to becoming an apprentice of master shaman Don Juan Tangoa Paima, leading to the creation of the Ayahuasca Foundation in 2009. He discusses the integration of Western educational approaches with ancestral healing traditions, the foundation's groundbreaking research on ayahuasca's effects on PTSD, and his vision for bridging indigenous wisdom with modern psychedelic therapy.

Carlos Tanner has been studying ayahuasca and plant medicine in the Amazon Rainforest since 2003. As the director of the Ayahuasca Foundation, which he founded in 2009 in Iquitos, Peru, Carlos organizes healing retreats and educational courses led by indigenous curanderos. These programs help people heal from conditions ranging from depression to cancer or learn about Amazonian ancestral healing traditions.

Since 2017, the Ayahuasca Foundation has partnered with Onaya Science to research the ayahuasca tradition’s effects on depression, anxiety, and trauma. The research has led to over a dozen published articles showing significant reductions in depression and anxiety symptoms, along with improvements in PTSD, chronic pain, and other health issues.

Highlights:

• Journey from depression and addiction to discovering ayahuasca in Peru
• The transformative experience of his first ayahuasca ceremonies
• Background on Don Juan Tangoa Paima and his unique multicultural lineage
• Development of structured educational programs for ayahuasca training
• Discussion of the art form approach to plant medicine
• Evolution of the Ayahuasca Foundation over 15 years
• The importance of spirit relationships in healing work
• Research on ayahuasca and PTSD
• Ayahuasca's potential effects on PTSD and childhood trauma

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

I feel like I'm being pulled into a portal of novelty and high weirdness. It's an interesting time in the macro and the micro-- I'm about to leave for my gateway process retreat at the Monroe Institute, I've been invited to go sky-watching with Ryan Bledsoe, UFO hearings just happened, let's talk about it!

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In this episode, Kyle interviews Geoff Bathje, Ph.D.: licensed psychologist, researcher, former Full Professor, and co-founder of Sana Healing Collective, a Chicago-based non-profit focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy and psychedelic integration.

He talks about what he feels is one of the largest factors in our mental health crisis: the individualistic and neoliberal lens Western culture has placed on mental health and how it neglects the massive systemic and relational factors that are affecting us all. He digs into how we got so alienated and how psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness can not only help us think critically and solve problems, but also move us out of this individualistic framework of healing and more into a collective one. How do we use psychedelics to fix our relationships and find our community?

He discusses:

• The challenge of knowing when to work for relationships and when to just end them, especially in the afterglow of a big experience
• Group ketamine experience vs. individual, how groups can help facilitators find patterns, and how ketamine works with somatic therapy
• His paper, “Psychedelic integration: An analysis of the concept and its practice” and his visual model of integration showing the different domains of our personal experience
• What he thinks will happen next in drug development: Will therapy be left out after Lykos’ failure with MDMA?
• The importance of moving beyond aggressive criticism and moving into world building

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Stephanie Karzon Abrams, a neuropharmacologist and founding advisor of Beyond Consulting.

Find full show notes and links here:  https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-276-stephanie-karzon-abrams

With her unique background spanning clinical pharmacology, corporate healthcare, and the music industry, Stephanie shares insights on the intersection of psychedelic science, integrative medicine, and community building. She discusses the transformative potential of psychedelics from a neuropharmacological perspective, her work supporting ketamine clinics and plant medicine brands, as well as her journey from traditional healthcare to pioneering innovative approaches in the psychedelic space.

Stephanie Karzon Abrams, a neuropharmacologist with a Masters of Science in Clinical Pharmacology, is the founding advisor of Beyond Consulting, providing science, research, operations, and strategy solutions to organizations in the natural product, plant medicine, and psychedelic sectors. Her career spans from clinical research and Johnson & Johnson to pioneering innovative healthcare approaches.

Beyond her scientific work, she co-creates community initiatives including Public Secret music label and Mt. Mushmore educational dinner series. As a prescriber for MDMA and psilocybin therapy through Canada's Special Access Program and scientific advisor for the Microdosing Collective, she champions the integration of cutting-edge therapeutic approaches with traditional healthcare. Her work focuses on bridging scientific expertise with strategic thinking to advance innovative healthcare solutions.

Highlights:

• Origins of Public Secret record label and global groove music collective
• Rich cultural background and journey from Montreal to California
• Stephanie breaks down clinical psychopharmacology
• Mount Mushmore
• Transition from J&J to psychedelic medicine consulting
• Stephanie's firm, Beyond Consulting
• Supporting ketamine clinics and integrative medicine centers
• Deep dive into neuropharmacology of psychedelics vs traditional medications
• Microdosing applications for ADHD and anxiety
• Importance of lifestyle changes alongside psychedelic protocols
• Managing work-life balance in the psychedelic industry

Links:

• Beyond Consulting
• Public Secret Music Label
• Microdosing Collective

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Joe interviews Thomas Feegel: co-founder of Beond Ibogaine, an ibogaine treatment and research facility in Cancún, Mexico.

When Feegel first heard of ibogaine 16 years ago, he found that people were having great success, but nobody could recommend where to go for treatment. So he worked to create what was needed: a combination of a hospital, mental health treatment facility, retreat center, and resort, with the proper infrastructure in place, employees with ICU experience, exhaustive HIPAA-compliant admission criteria, regular data collection, and a major focus on safety.

Addressing the recent Rolling Stone article about the tragic death of a patient at Beond in 2022 (interestingly, 2 days after his initial dose), he discusses what he feels was inaccurate, largely related to what could be perceived as a suggestion that there wasn’t enough screening or that corners were cut. With no official reason given for the patient’s death, it brings into question just how safe one can be, especially with people whose bodies and hearts have been through so much. How much hidden harm is created by the stress of PTSD and addiction?

He discusses:

• The complexity of journalism and drawing conclusions from limited information
• The limitations of conventional addiction treatments and the sad numbers around how many people stick with rehab
• The importance of collecting as much data as possible about each patient, at regular intervals, prior to, during, and after the experience
• The need for a regulating group to create standards around admission and administration procedures for ibogaine

and more! 

We’re releasing this episode on Veterans Day because Beond’s program was co-developed by veterans, military medical personnel, and active-duty law enforcement officers who have seen how much ibogaine can help. If you know a vet who is struggling, be sure to let them know what's possible with psychedelic therapy. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, David interviews Floris Wolswijk: senior project manager at Delphi; co-founder of FLO coaching; and founder of Blossom, an online informational hub collecting psychedelic courses, trials, companies, and over 2000 categorized research articles.

When Wolswijk began Blossom, he was barely able to fill a weekly newsletter, and now he’s adding a new study nearly every day, perfectly illustrating the exponential growth in psychedelic research. He talks about why so much research is happening (and why more isn’t), the trends he’s seen, the benefit in research changing people’s minds, and what he hopes for in the future. What can the research community learn from existing real world evidence, and how can retreat centers and underground communities contribute?

He also discusses:

• What culture is like in the Netherlands, where psilocybin truffles are legal
• Drug development and the possibilities of adjusting existing molecules
• What we can learn from the Lykos and FDA situation
• The economics of psychedelics and how insurance will likely be the next big conversation
• His work with FLO coaching, and how coaching, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin can work together

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Paul Karasik, a pioneering figure in both corporate leadership and psychedelic spaces.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-275-paul-karasik/?ref=278

Karasik shares his remarkable journey from co-founding Thompson's Ranch commune in Joshua Tree to becoming one of America's leading sales consultants. He discusses his recent book "Getting High on Leadership" and explores how psychedelics can transform leadership through heart-centered approaches. The conversation weaves through themes of community building, conscious business practices, and the vital intersection of higher consciousness with modern leadership principles.

Paul Karasik brings decades of experience in the world of psychedelics. He was a member of the early psychedelic community in New York and California, which included such luminaries as Timothy Leary and Ram Dass.

Paul co-founded Thompson's Ranch, one of the first alternative communities in Joshua Tree, CA. His ninth and most recent book, published in 2024 is "Getting High on Leadership: The Leader’s Guide to Higher Consciousness". Paul and the Psychedelic Institute of Los Angeles are dedicated to making information and safe access available to anyone and everyone who is seeking to awaken their consciousness.

Highlights:

• Founding Thompson's Ranch: From Haight-Ashbury to Joshua Tree
• Why the 60s missed the healing potential of psychedelics
• Health crisis catalyzes spiritual transformation in Brazil
• Creating with intention
• How compassionate leadership drives business success
• Building psychedelic community
• Collaborating with Cypress Hill's B-Real for Awakening 2024

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Prof Nutt meets with Prof Alex Stevens, researcher in drug policy, treatment and harm reduction and Gillian Shorter, a researcher into the health and wellbeing of people who use alcohol and drugs. 

In this episode they discuss harm reduction strategies in the UK. They delve into the root causes of the stigma surrounding substance use disorders and explore the effectiveness of various harm reduction approaches, such as needle exchange programs and drug consumption rooms. The conversation also considers the politics surrounding these strategies and the limitations imposed by the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Drug consumption Rooms BBC

Drug Science Enhanced Harm Reduction Working Group

Needle Exchange

Naloxone

Drug Consumption Room

High Tolerance Housing

The Merseyside Model

Drug Testing

Drug Testing Kits

International Harm Reduction Association

HIV and AIDS

Opiate Substitution Therapy

Winter Comfort Case Support the Podcast

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Eric Sienknecht, PsyD joins to discuss the roles of music in psychedelic sessions. Dr. Sienknecht is a licensed clinical psychologist and co-founder and lead trainer at Polaris Insight Center, a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy clinic and training center. He has worked as sub-investigator and study therapist on the Lykos-sponsored MDMA-AT clinical trials for PTSD and currently is also a supervisor and educator in MDMA-AT for various clinical trial sites. Dr. Sienknecht has a deep interest in the role and use of music in ketamine and MDMA sessions and specializes in curating playlists for psychedelic experiences.

In this conversation, Dr. Sienknecht discusses how he first realized the importance of music in psychedelic experiences. He shares insights on how different genres and moods of music may be better suited to certain phases of the psychedelic experience and how he works individually with clients to better tailor a session playlist to their personal taste. Dr. Sienknecht even discusses how to strategically include shadow elements in a playlist to facilitate a client going deeper in their journey. In closing, he emphasizes how the intersection of psychedelic experiences and music remains understudied with only a few book chapters and articles dealing directly with the topic, so there is much yet to learn and explore in this exciting niche. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• What is universal vs what is individual when it comes to music and psychedelics

• Why Dr. Sienknecht avoids music with lyrics in a participant’s native language for psychedelic sessions

• The research on different genres of music for psychedelic journeys

• Balancing planning music in advance and adapting to the specific pace and mood of the client’s experience

• Utilizing nature sounds alongside or within music during psychedelic sessions

• Binaural beats and brainwaves

Quotes:

“There’s generally better tracks to use for the opening phase of a [psychedelic] journey, for the peak phase of a journey [etc], and there’s been some research into that as well.” [6:05]

“Taste is so subjective… Knowing your client and talking with them beforehand about their taste and letting that information really inform how you create the playlist is really important.” [27:02]

“One of the benefits of doing psychedelic therapy is that you can surrender control over elements of set and setting—not that those aren’t negotiable and ongoingly negotiable, as they should be—but there’s something about [the fact that the therapist] has got the music taken care of, the room set up, everything is in its right place. All I have to do is fast from food for a few hours, have my intention, and step into the journey—and that can help someone to really just trust and surrender more into the experience.” [30:20]

Links:

Integral Psychedelic Therapy edited by Jason A. Butler, Genesee Herzberg, and Richard Louis Miller

Dr. Sienknecht on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center website

Music for Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy Sessions training with Dr. Sienknecht at Polaris Insight Center

Previous episodes: Psychedelics and Nature: The Symbiotic Relationship with Dr. Sam Gandy

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Tracy: head of sales & partnerships at Enthea, a company that works with employers, unions, and employee assistance programs to be able to offer ketamine-assisted therapy (and psilocybin where it’s legal) to employees.

She talks about her path to psychedelics and how the shifts in her life led her to want to help others, finding Enthea and using her 15 years of experience in healthcare to make an immediate difference. She explains how the process works for an employee of a company Enthea works with, and the importance of evidence-based medical policy and rigorous screening to make sure people are getting the best intervention possible. One of Enthea’s largest clients is Dr. Bronner’s, who reported incredible improvements after employees used the benefit, with a 65% improvement in depression scores and an 86% improvement in PTSD.

She also discusses:

• How psychedelics bring awareness to what we need to work on
• Less-discussed treatment modalities, like electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), and stellate ganglion block (SGB)
• The inefficiency of traditional talk therapy: 50% of people only see really good benefits after 20 sessions
• The importance of viewing mental health as individualized care: What else can we offer to people who haven’t been helped by traditional methods?
• The research that she wants to see, like measures in how present or productive people are before and after experiences

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe and Kyle finally meet up again for the first episode of Psychedelics Lately: the updated version of the much-missed Psychedelics Weekly, where they’ll meet each month to talk about the most interesting stories in psychedelics.

The main story this month is the fate of Massachusetts’ Question 4: Regulated Access to Psychedelic Substances Initiative (The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act). They discuss what they like about the bill, its opposition, and its support, including actress Eliza Dushku Palandjian, who went from a diagnosis of PTSD and an in-the-psychedelic-closet underground experience to becoming a very public, soon-to-be certified psychedelic facilitator. If you live in Massachusetts, make sure to read about the bill and get out and vote this Tuesday (or now, if you’re registered for early voting).

They also discuss:

• Joe’s recent east coast travels to Harvard and the PhilaDelic conference
• Alfred North Whitehead and Process Philosophy
• The Psychedelics and Pain Association, and Court Wing’s involvement in the first published case report of complex regional pain syndrome being treated with psilocybin
• The scientific community needing to embrace more experientially-based approaches and practices
• The challenge of making meaning out of the mystical

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

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UFO and Paranormal experiencer, seeker and son of Chris Bledsoe, Ryan Bledsoe enters the mind meld!

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Ryan Bledsoe and his family have been ground zero for all manner of high weirdness for nearly 20 years. Ryan's life has been completely transformed as a result-- He left the religion he grew up in, his ideas about reality changed, and he (and his family) have been investigated by numerous intelligence agencies.

In this one, we riff on Ryan and his family's experiences, disinformation, the esoteric and why Ryan believes UFOs are a spiritual phenomenon.

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In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes: philosopher, lecturer at the University of Exeter, co-director of the Breaking Convention conference, and author who most recently co-edited Philosophy and Psychedelics: Frameworks for Exceptional Experience.

He discusses how the work of William James and an early psilocybin experience led him to an interest in philosophy and psychedelics, and he dives deep into several philosophical concepts: panpsychism, pantheism, ethical pluralism, teleology, process theology, Whitehead’s fallacy of misplaced concreteness, and more. He believes that science has lost touch with metaphysics – the branch of philosophy that examines the basic structure of reality – and that studying metaphysics will lead to more beneficial experiences with the non-ordinary: If you can understand and frame the experience, you’ll have a much better chance of being able to integrate its lessons.

He discusses:

• The complexity of ethics and the need to ask more philosophical questions
• His book, Neo-Nihilism, which argued that there are no shared objective morals
• The West’s’ obsession with scientism and believing only what can be reducible to matter: Is science honest if it ignores the ineffable?
• The connections between philosophical frameworks and religion: Would studying comparative religion help us better understand each other?
• The need for more experiential research

and more! 

Sjöstedt-Hughes is the co-lead on Exeter’s 12-month postgraduate certificate course, “Psychedelics: Mind, Medicine, and Culture,” and is finalizing his next book, a manual on psychedelics and metaphysics.

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Kat Courtney, a plant medicine pioneer with over 15 years of experience as a psychedelic integration coach. Kat shares her journey from struggling with mental health issues to finding healing through ayahuasca. She discusses the complementary relationship between ayahuasca and huachuma (San Pedro), the practice of master plant dietas, and her approach to psychedelic integration. Kat emphasizes the importance of intention, slowing down, and developing a daily spiritual practice for integrating ayahuasca experiences.

Tina “Kat” Courtney is a Plant Medicine pioneer with 2 decades of professional psychedelic experience. She’s the author of Plant Medicine Mystery School Vol 1: The Superhero Healing Powers of Psychotropic Plants, and she’s a traditionally trained Ayahuasquera and Huachumera. Kat’s also been working as a Psychedelic Integration Coach for 15 years, and is the CEO and Co-Founder of Plant Medicine People. Her entire life is devoted to helping humans discover the power of being in relationship with plant spirits.

Highlights:

• Kat's personal transformation through ayahuasca
• Ayahuasca and huachuma: divine feminine and masculine
• Master plant dietas: isolated vs. social approaches
• Intention and reverence in plant medicine work
• Essential practices for ayahuasca integration
• Overview of Kat's themed retreat offerings

Episode Links:

• Plant Medicine People: https://plantmedicinepeople.com
• Kat's personal website: https://afterlife.coach
• Third Wave’s Microdosing Experience: https://thethirdwave.co/sp/microdosing-experience/?ref=250  
• Third Wave's directory: https://thethirdwave.co/directory/?ref=250

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Joe interviews 4 members of the Penn Psychedelics Collaborative: Co-Founder, Taylor Andrews Flatt, PMHNP; Associate Director, Victor Pablo Acero, Ph.D.; Professor in Fine Arts and Co-Director of the Weitzman School of Design, Jackie Tileston; and Executive Director and Director of the Penn Program for Mindfulness, Michael Baime, MD.

Recorded earlier this month at the PhilaDelic conference – one of the primary initiatives of the PPC – they discuss their paths to psychedelics and why this transdisciplinary collection of faculty, researchers, and clinicians at the University of Pennsylvania was so necessary. Viewing psychedelics from different perspectives (Flatt from nursing, Acero from bioengineering, Tileston from the art and mysticism side of things, and Baime from a more mindfulness point of view), their group is a case study in collaboration – a place where connections can be catalyzed and shared goals can be addressed from different angles. How far can we go when different groups start working together?

They discuss:

• The concept of psychedelics not just being used to treat conditions, but to make us healthier
• Psychedelic art and the idea of the art itself being psychoactive rather than just representations of trips
• The work of David Glowacki and bringing about non-ordinary states of consciousness through VR
• Research into salvia being used to alleviate stroke symptoms
• How a lack of funding can really create focus

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

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Esoteric scholar and host of the Secret History of Western Esotericism podcast, Earl Fontainelle, PhD enters the mind meld! 

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Earl Fontainelle is a researcher specializing in the religious and philosophic thought of late antiquity. He's especially interested in platonism, hermeticism, and Greco-Roman spirituality and philosophy, in general. In this mind meld, we cover a lot of territory: Mysterious pre-socratic healer-seers who regularly partook in soul flight, ideas about the soul and subtle bodies in antiquity, ancient accounts of communing with non-human intelligence (gods, goddesses, daimones, etc), hermetic and platonic rebirth into an immortal nous (consciousness) body, and more! 

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What is the UK medical cannabis industry looking like in 2024?

We are 6 years on from legalisation of cannabis-based medical products in the UK and although many patients have now been able to access these products, many others are still struggling to get access. 

In this episode of the Drug Science podcast, Prof. David Nutt is joined by three leading experts in cannabis science and the evolving landscape of regulation. Dr. Callie Seaman, Dr. Leon Barron, and Michael Sassano share their insights into the future of cannabis as a medicine, the current regulatory environment, and the scientific innovations driving the industry forward

Cannabis Industry Council

Medical Cannabis Working Group  

SOMAI Pharmaceuticals 

Medical Cannabis Clinicians Society

London Resilience Clinic 

German medical cannabis market 

NHS Cannabis-based products for medicinal use

Cost effectiveness paper

HHS report 

This episode has been supported by the Cannabis Industry Council 

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Giorgia Caspani, PhD joins to discuss the intersection of psychedelics and the gut microbiome and ramifications for future personalized medicine. Dr. Caspani is a neuroscientist and computational biologist working at the intersection of gut microbiome, psychedelics and personalized medicine.

In this conversation, Dr. Caspani discusses her research published in the article “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis.” She shares what we know about how psychedelics impact the gut microbiome from initial studies and what questions remain unanswered. She draws connections between the way the gut microbiome metabolizes SSRI drugs and how serotonin impacts the gut microbiota to hypothesize the potential ways psychedelics interact with this complex living system. In closing, Dr. Caspani discusses the possibility of predicting responses to psychedelic treatments using data from the microbiota, and the research currently happening to make this possible. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How human beings and our gut microbiome co-evolved and the benefits achieved through this symbiotic relationship

• The correlation between the gut microbiome and stress levels 

• The effects of psychedelics on immune responses

• Why personalized medicine may be a more effective approach for treating depression

• How personalized medicine could help make psychedelic therapies more accessible and effective

Quotes:

“Without our gut microbes… We wouldn't be able to really perform a lot of the metabolic functions that we rely on as humans.” [4:26]

“The gut microbiome is different in every person—it’s very unique. And so every person carries this unique microbial signature that can potentially map out to all of the treatment options that we already have available; it’s just a matter of understanding and identifying markers that can predict which patient will benefit from a specific drug.” [18:22]

“[We hypothesize that] the gut microbiome shapes individual responses to psychedelic treatment. And so if that [hypothesis] is correct, if that is true, we could potentially target the microbiome, change the composition of the gut microbiome like we wanted to, to be able to maximize the effectiveness of these [psychedelic] drugs.” [25:14]

Links:

Dr. Caspani’s article, “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis”

Dr. Caspani on LinkedIn

Dr. Caspani on X

Onaya Science website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode we are going to dive into the wonderful world of bees and bee keeping.

History of Alchemy.

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Support the podcast.

Music featured in this episode:

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Rimsky-Korsakov

In this episode, Joe interviews two people on the frontlines of the campaign for Massachusetts' Question 4: The Natural Psychedelic Substances Act: Graham Moore and Community Engagement Director, Jamie Morey.

They discuss the specifics of the initiative, listed on the ballot as the “Limited Legalization and Regulation of Certain Natural Psychedelic Substances,” including the removal of criminal penalties for limited personal use, and the establishment of a regulatory agency that will provide therapeutic access to any of five natural psychedelics (psilocybin, psilocin, DMT, mescaline, and ibogaine). They tell their stories of how they discovered the power of psychedelics, and discuss the work they’re doing, educating a fairly interested – but still very hesitant – public about the bill and the importance of it passing this November.

They talk about:

• The significance of this happening in Massachusetts, especially with the amount of biomedical research happening in Boston
• The story of a member of Baystaters creating a fraudulent persona in a veterans advocacy group to fight against legalization efforts
• The challenge of getting people to publicly support initiatives that deal with illegal substances
• The power of small steps in legislation: Before this bill, MA had the most local measures in the U.S.
• How data collection should be handled at service centers

and more! 

If you live in Massachusetts, learn about the bill here, and make sure to get out and cast your vote in November. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Susannah Rose Stokes, co-founder of Metamorphosis Ventures.

Click here for full show notes, links, & summary: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-273?ref=278 

Susannah shares her remarkable journey from Marine Corps officer to embodied priestess and psychedelic guide. She discusses her transformative experiences with plant medicines, the importance of integration, and her mission to create supportive containers for psychedelic healing.

Susannah explores the concept of metamorphosis, balancing microdosing and macrodosing protocols, and her approach to guiding others through profound personal change.

After serving in two combat tours in Afghanistan as a Marine Corps Officer, Susannah experienced a spiritual awakening that changed her life forever.

Since then, she’s dedicated her life as an Energy Priestess and Embodied Consciousness Guide. She’s served dozens of people in 1:1 and group ceremonies, guiding them in their own spiritual awakening process.

She co-founded House of Embodied Metamorphosis, a 508c1a Faith- Based Organization that utilizes The Metamorphosis Method and their proprietary strain of psilocybin to facilitate powerful personal transformations through retreats and coaching programs. She authored Entheogenerated, a comprehensive research study on existing research of psychedelics and their capacity to create individual and collective change.

She holds a Master's in Transformative Social Change, is a graduate of the US Naval Academy and speaks Mandarin Chinese and Spanish, all in service to creating more peace and connection.

As a changemaker, Susannah weaves ancient and modern techniques, paving a path for fellow leaders to create transformation toward a world full of trust, co-creation and abundance for all.

Highlights:

• Susannah's journey from the Marine Corps to plant medicine facilitation
• The transformative power of San Pedro ceremonies
• Shifting from warrior for war to warrior for peace
• The meaning and challenges of personal metamorphosis
• Balancing microdosing and macrodosing protocols
• The concept of the embodied priestess
• Founding Metamorphosis Ventures and The Metamorphosis Method

Episode Links:

• Metamorphosis Ventures
• Susannah on Instagram

In this episode, Joe interviews Diana Quinn, ND: naturopathic doctor, healing justice practitioner, and director of clinical education at the Naropa Center for Psychedelic Studies, where she directs their Psilocybin Facilitator Training certificate program.

She discusses her path from anthropology to naturopathy, and eventually to psychedelics and activism, finding a framework for psychedelic education grounded in healing justice, which recognizes the impact of collective trauma on all of us, seeks to reclaim lost or stolen models of healing, focuses on equity and accessibility, and brings an anti-oppression lens to training programs to give students a greater capacity for culturally responsive care. She encourages seeing things from an anti-capitalist viewpoint, and recognizes the huge clash between using such powerful and mystical medicines inside structures so embedded with problematic human qualities. How can you build inside of these Western systems without being affected by that capitalist energy?

She discusses:

• The importance of respecting plants from other cultures – that no healing or consciousness expansion is justifiable when it threatens an entire species
• The challenge of integrating the weirdest parts of non-ordinary states into education: How does a Western framework come to terms with the ineffable?
• How colonialism and the culture born from it has hurt us all
• The importance of finding your own lineage and what is sacred to you
• The work of Rick Tarnas and the amazing patterns we can find in astrology

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dave Schoof, a master certified coach and international leadership consultant.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-272?ref=278

Dave shares his journey from working in intelligence to becoming a leadership coach, and how he eventually incorporated psychedelics into his practice. He discusses the power of integral theory in organizational development, the importance of emergence and unfolding in leadership, and how psychedelics can catalyze personal growth and leadership transformation. Dave also reflects on his experience in the Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Training Program, and offers insights on the future of leadership in our complex world.

Dave Schoof is an international leadership consultant specializing in helping leaders and teams build on their capabilities and move to the next level of performance and effectiveness. With over 25 years of experience across corporate, non-profit, and government sectors, Dave works with clients globally. He is a master-certified coach from the International Coach Federation and Integral Coaching Canada. Dave's background includes a 20-year career in the intelligence community. A long-time meditator, he enjoys finding practical ways to operationalize wisdom from various traditions into his work with leaders. Dave lives near Lausanne, Switzerland, where he enjoys hiking and photography.

Highlights:

• Dave's journey to Switzerland
• Dave's background in intelligence and transition to leadership coaching
• The development and impact of integral theory
• How psychedelics found Dave and their potential for leadership development
• The importance of nervous system regulation and safety in psychedelic experiences
• Dave's transformative experience at the Brave Earth retreat
• The evolving landscape of psychedelic acceptance in leadership circles
• The need for a new paradigm of leadership in the face of global challenges

Episode Links:

• Dave on LinkedIn
• The Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Training Program

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Erick Godsey returns to the mind meld!

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In this one, we riff around the practical, psychological and esoteric layers of what Carl Jung called individuation: The process of becoming a psychologically distinct and whole individual. In short, the art of discovering and living one's purpose in life. We also muse about individuation's direct connection to a more overtly mystical and ancient concept, the personal daimon, and much more. 

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In this episode, Joe interviews Rick Doblin, Ph.D.: founder and president of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and former board member at Lykos Therapeutics, MAPS’ public benefit subsidiary.

Doblin tells his side of the story: that the FDA’s concerns with double blinding not working had been fully addressed ahead of time, that they had negotiated agreements that were no longer agreed to when new FDA employees came on board, that there was a lot of confusion from going back and forth with the FDA on how Phase 3 studies should be designed, and more. He believes that both Lykos and MAPS made a massive mistake in assuming that provable science was more important than public opinion, and that ignoring critics who were saying whatever they wanted caused them to lose control of the narrative – which clearly influenced the advisory committee. While Lykos figures out their next steps with the FDA, MAPS is focusing their attention on what they feel is most important in light of this ruling: better public education and drug policy.

He talks about:

• How there’s a bias at the FDA to be harsh: Does automatically saying no just make it look like you’re being rigorous?
• The work of the Dutch government in researching MDMA, and Lykos’ odd decision to not highlight any of it
• Massachusetts’ Legalization and Regulation of Psychedelic Substances initiative, and the huge opportunity for progress at the local level
• Why federal agents at Burning Man work so hard to give tickets to attendees for smoking cannabis
• Why sharing stories of your positive experiences with psychedelics is so important

and more! 

MAPS has announced that 2025’s Psychedelic Science conference will be in Denver, June 16-20, and will have experiential opportunities before and after. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this special bonus episode, we’re sharing a replay of our recent live webinar, “Visionary Leadership: Revolutionizing Executive Coaching with Psychedelics.” Paul F. Austin is joined by two expert guests:

Dr. Amy Albright - An executive coach and intuitive who combines science-driven methodology with intuitive knowing. She has worked with companies valued from $10M to $3B and has a background in cognitive psychology and Chinese medicine.

Eric Kaufmann - An executive coach and author who blends business expertise with Zen wisdom. He mentors CEOs and executives through leadership challenges and is a Fellow at Harvard's Institute of Coaching.

The conversation explores how psychedelics and altered states of consciousness can enhance leadership development and executive coaching. Paul, Dr. Amy, and Eric dive into intersection of business, spirituality, and altered states of consciousness. They also explore using neurofeedback and meditation to complement psychedelic experiences, integrating psychedelic insights into corporate environments, and much more. 

Highlights:

• Amy shares her background and experience with altered states of consciousness
• Amy’s approach to executive coaching
• Eric’s perspective on altered states vs. altered traits of consciousness
• Neurofeedback and meditation as complementary practices to psychedelics
• Insights on integrating psychedelic experiences into corporate environments
• Perspectives on bringing feminine energy into business leadership

Episode Sponsor:

• KA! Empathogenics Kanna Supplements. Get 10% off with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode, Kyle interviews Gabriela Galindo: program coordinator of FLOWS (Foundations for Leaders Organizing for Water and Sustainability), an organization working towards social and environmental justice, ecosystem restoration, community building, and the preservation and protection of Indigenous medicines.

She discusses her entry point to psychedelics and how she got involved with Colorado’s Natural Medicine Health Act (Prop 122) when she saw a complete absence of Indigenous representation in the legislature. The narrative that we all have a right to healing and that these medicines belong to everyone is pretty common today, but Galindo argues that this is not fair: that each plant has its own history, and that each is protected by its own culture. Shouldn’t the communities that have stewarded these medicines for centuries have a say in whether their medicine is going to be shared and legislated at the state level? Shouldn’t they have the ability to consent to these new proposals?

She talks about:

• Why she likes using ‘movement’ instead of ‘renaissance’ when discussing our psychedelic culture
• What we could learn from Indigenous people’s harmony with nature as we face an ongoing climate crisis
• The balancing act of pleasing everyone: Would decriminalization be as supported if Indigenous communities wanted to keep some of these substances criminalized for the protection of their culture and their ecosystems?
• How psychedelic communities should evolve to include community work into their routines: What do local communities need and how can you help?
• The importance of knowing when to step aside and truly center a community voice

and more! 

If you’re in Colorado, Galindo will be leading a panel on Oct. 17 called “Honoring Sacred Plant Medicines: Restoring Balance Through Indigenous Wisdom” as part of Wellness Week in Boulder. Click here for more info.

For links, head to the show notes page. 

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MJDorian of the Creative Codex podcast returns!

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In this one, we riff on the multidimensional influence of what Carl Jung called the shadow archetype. Its influence reaches far beyond individual psyches. You’ll find it in myths, fairytales, groups and even the collective psyche of humanity.  

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In this episode, we meet with Darren Murphy, a Chemsex Specialist Practitioner at Forward Leeds, to discuss chemsex, addiction, as well as addressing the link with the LGBTQ+ community. Darren shares his personal journey, navigating the challenges of drug addiction and everything which came with it. Realising the limited support available for people engaging in chemsex, Darren shares how he uses his experiences to help others overcome similar struggles. 

ChemSex and Being Safer

Methamphetamine

mephedrone

GHB

Poppers

Cocaine

Mdma

Ketamine

Eating disorder

HIV

Narcotics Anonymous

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In this episode, Joe interviews Mareesa Stertz: lead of strategy/communications at the Global Psychedelic Society, co-founder of Lucid News, and filmmaker, currently finalizing her second feature film, “Confessions of a Psychonaut.”

She discusses her path to wanting to create the film: how she always felt like something was wrong with her but didn’t know exactly how to start her healing path, how seven ayahuasca trips didn’t give her the breakthrough experience she wanted, and how she realized over time that she didn’t have a hidden moment of trauma to overcome, but rather, lots of “little t” trauma – something that a lot of us have, without necessarily knowing it. She saw the true power of people sharing their stories of becoming healthier, and has found that aligning our stories to the classic framework of the Hero’s Journey and Carl Jung’s concept of individuation is the perfect formula for self-awareness, growth, and finding more meaning in life.

She talks about:

• How the Hero’s Journey makes sense of the abyss, and how the abyss helps us to see how much we’ve been programmed
• Her formula for a good story: who you were before the event, the event, and how it changed you
• Her Sphinx project, where she aims to bring giant sphinxes (from “The NeverEnding Story”) to Burning Man, as a way for people to determine if they are “worthy”
• Her “Talk Box” art installation, which involves strangers meeting in a confession booth to engage in meaningful conversations based on a wheel of questions
• The power of group coherence and how much stronger a healing container can become over time

and more! 

Stertz is offering a course on finding where the Hero’s Journey is in each of our lives: “Emerge: A Journey of Self-Authorship” begins on October 29. Click here for more info.

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Christi Myers, founder and CEO of Flow Integrative.

Find episode links, summary, and transcript here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-270-christi-myers/?ref=278

Christi shares her journey from emergency medicine to pioneering ketamine-assisted therapy protocols. She discusses the science behind ketamine's effects on the brain, her work developing standards for ketamine therapy with Dr. Bronner's, and her vision for expanding access to this transformative treatment.

Christi offers insights on responsible implementation of ketamine therapy and how it can be integrated with other healing modalities.

Christi Myers, the visionary Founder and CEO of Flow Integrative, has charted an inspiring path of transformation. With nearly two decades of experience as a Paramedic, she has made significant contributions to renowned organizations including the Department of Defense, American Medical Response, Air Methods, San Bernardino County Fire and Sheriff Department, and the Department of Justice.

Motivated by her firsthand experience with the mental health challenges that often plague first responders, and her own journey through PTSD, Myers founded Flow Integrative in 2020. The organization’s mission is to destigmatize and expand access to psychedelic therapies, offering tools for growth, symptom relief, and holistic well-being, with a particular focus on frontline workers dealing with complex trauma.

Highlights:

• Christi's background in emergency medicine and as an educator
• How ketamine works in the brain and impacts the default mode network
• Developing ketamine therapy protocols for Dr. Bronner's employees
• Combining ketamine with other healing modalities like PEMF and red light therapy
• Safety considerations and contraindications for ketamine therapy
• Christi's vision for empowering more practitioners to offer ketamine therapy

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