Plant Medicine Podcast

In this episode, Christina P. Kantzavelos, LCSW, MSW, MLIS joins to discuss the use of psychedelics to address chronic illness. Christina is an international psychotherapist, coach, writer and artist, who specializes in treating clients with chronic illness, and complex trauma utilizing various modalities, including psychedelic assisted therapy.

In this conversation, Christina overviews the complex mental and physical health impacts of chronic pain conditions and shares her expertise on psychedelic and non-psychedelic treatments for these conditions. Christina mentions that chronic pain can put one’s body in a state that encourages fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses which can disempower the patient’s efforts to address their condition. She also explores the intersection of identity and chronic pain conditions, discussing how that while receiving a particular diagnosis can be helpful and affirming, taking this as a core part of one’s identity can also be a major roadblock to healing. In closing, Christina emphasizes that pain starts in the brain, so leveraging neuroplasticity through psychedelics and other means can be a particularly powerful way to address both physical and mental health aspects of chronic pain conditions. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How Christina got involved in working with patients with chronic pain

• The common mental health presentations in those with chronic pain

• The importance of addressing physical health and mental health concurrently 

• Why psychedelics may be helpful for addressing chronic pain conditions

• The immunomodulating effects of psychedelics

• The power of neuroplasticity for addressing chronic pain 

• Utilizing neural retraining and microdosing in conjunction to prepare for more successful higher dose psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“I use all kinds of modalities and I don’t just treat someone’s depression or anxiety or complex trauma—I see it as everything is interwoven and related to each other. And it’s important that we look at the entirely mosaic piece rather than just focusing on one area.” [5:20]

“There is a state of empowerment versus disempowerment in identifying with our chronic illness. I’m not saying that it is not real and it's not happening to you but it definitely is not you. It’s something you are experiencing. Even if it’s chronic and lifelong, it’s still something you are experiencing—it’s not you as a whole.” [17:48]

“I’ve noticed that any of my clients who have gone through neural retraining have had little to no bad [psychedelic] trips which is amazing and I feel like that’s partly because they worked so hard to resource themselves in advance.” [25:19]

Links:

Christina on Instagram

Christina on LinkedIn

Begin with Today website

When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stress by Gabor Maté

PMA CME/CE accredited course: Managing Medical Risk in Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy

Search for providers on the Psychology Today website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Jerónimo Mazarrasa joins to discuss how to interpret visions and insights disclosed during ayahuasca journeys more effectively. Jerónimo is Program Director at ICEERS, founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator of AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies.

To start, Jerónimo emphasizes that answering the question of whether ayahuasca visions originate in the plant medicine itself or if these are just disclosures of one’s own subconscious is actually not what's most important. Instead, he suggests that in either case, what is crucial is spending time carefully considering how one should respond to these disclosures. Jerónimo shares insights from expert facilitators on how one can best go about interpreting and responding to such experiences, suggesting that an important aspect of this process is that participants feel comfortable taking personal responsibility for whatever decisions they eventually decide to make rather than thinking of these major life changes as necessary consequences of the psychedelic experience itself. In closing, Jerónimo discusses the tension between externalization and psychologization of psychedelic experiences and why both of these can lead to issues. 

In this episode, you'll hear:

• The common experience of feeling as though the ayahuasca has communicated something to you

• Examples of where taking an ayahuasca vision literally can lead to problematic outcomes 

• The “three confirmations” one should look for before making a major decision based on a psychedelic experience

• The metaphor of ayahuasca as a microscope

• How skilled ayahuasca facilitators ensure proper psychological hygiene with participants

• Judging the validity of potential repressed memories that seem to surface during psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“The way that ayahuasca becomes useful for people, I think, is that it shows you—it amplifies and shows you—what is already inside of yourself. Now, this is very useful for certain things but one has to understand the nature of the language.”  [9:23]

“Facilitators should instruct their participants that one rule is that you shouldn’t make any decisions during an ayahuasca ceremony—unless they are decisions related to taking yourself out of danger.” [14:42]

“Ayahuasca is not a shortcut for personal development—it’s just a flashlight that can help you shed some light on some darker parts of [your] issues and problems, but it is not a shortcut.” [35:47]

“The main contraindication of psychedelics is not wanting to take psychedelics. You should absolutely never ever ever ever ever take psychedelics if you don’t want to because it is going to be horrible. It’s like a kiss—when you want it, its beautiful, intimate, gorgeous; when you don’t want it, it's the most intrusive, disgusting, blech thing ever.” [50:27]

Links:

Jerónimo on Instagram

Jerónimo on Facebook

ICEERS Academy website

ICEERS Academy on Instagram

AyaSafety course 

Previous episode: Guruism and Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams

Previous episode: Can Psychedelics Lead to False Beliefs? with Hugh McGovern, PhD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Hugh McGovern, PhD joins to discuss his research on the impact of psychedelics on beliefs. Dr. McGovern is a Research Fellow at the School of Medicine, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia.

To start, Dr. McGovern introduces the inference or predictive processing framework utilized in his paper “An Integrated theory of false insights and beliefs under psychedelics”. He explains the role of prediction in cognition, showing how insights occur when our existing perspectives are unable to make sense of our experience. In this vein, Dr. McGovern discusses how the psychedelic experience disrupts our normal modes of prediction and perception, leaving room for greater influence of environmental factors on insight production. In closing, Dr. McGovern shares ideas on further clinical directions for this research that could give guidance for helping patients more effectively integrate insight experiences.

In this episode you'll hear:

• The research into how psychedelics can influence and change beliefs

• The role beliefs and insights can play in psychedelic journeys 

• How false insights can be experimentally induced

• The connection between prediction errors in our cognition and insight experiences

• The hippocampus, memory, and psychedelics

• The association between insight moments and increased mental health following psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“[In psychedelic experiences] your expectations are no longer helping you make sense of your current sensory experience. And so you’re uniquely susceptible to environmental input under psychedelics—which would account for things like visual hallucinations [and] these novel insight moments.” [18:30]

“When you have really really strong prediction errors or really really strong insight moments, they can have a disproportionately important influence on your worldview going forward.” [20:03]

“Psychedelics, from a few different studies, show they can impair the formation of hippocampally dependent memories but they can perhaps even enhance the formation of cortically dependent memories. So what that means is you come out of the experience with this sense of knowing but it's in some sense lacking in details.” [29:04]

Links:

“An Integrated theory of false insights and beliefs under psychedelics” by Hugh McGovern et al.

Dr. McGovern on Bluesky

Previous episode: Guruism & Cult Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices with Joseph Holcomb Adams

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Heather A. Lee, LCSW joins to discuss the topic of psychedelic healing for grief and loss. Heather is a licensed psychotherapist, educator, speaker, and consultant. With over 30 years of practice in mental health, her focus is on supporting midlife and beyond women as they navigate life transitions.

In this conversation, Heather explores the ways psychedelic healing may have transformative contributions to peoples’ journeys navigating grief and loss. She explains that we live in a culture that doesn’t have a good understanding of grief, how to navigate it, or how to support others who are grieving, so it can be a difficult issue to address. Heather discusses the neuroplasticity-promoting effects of psychedelics and elucidates the ways this can be helpful for processing grief, especially by allowing the person grieving the opportunity to hold their grief in new, productive ways alongside other healthy emotions. In closing, Heather emphasizes how psychedelics can also provide healing for existential distress brought on by the many planetary crises humanity is now facing through providing a broader, life-affirming viewpoint on these issues.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Heather’s journey from working in hospice settings to working with psychedelic therapy

• Navigating the grief of losing others and the grief of realizing the imminent end of one’s own life

• Why Heather thinks psychedelics are particularly useful for grief and loss

• How grief can manifest both mentally and physically

• Client stories from Heather’s practice where patients are able to process grief to achieve a better quality of life

• Neuroplasticity, psychological flexibility, and processing grief

• Psychedelics for end-of-life grief and anxiety

• Physiological impacts of spending quality time in nature
  

Quotes:

“Psychedelics are a really important and powerful option that are coming into the conversation about how people can take some control of how they navigate that psycho-spiritual-emotional component of coming to end of life.” [3:19]

“There is no right or wrong way to grieve and there is no normal and abnormal. I think it’s just about having markers so that we can know when and how to provide support to people.” [9:27]

“On the [psychedelic] medicine, you experience that grief, that loss—whatever that is—you’re experiencing it while you’re in that [neuroplastic] state so that you have the opportunity to get a fresh perspective. And it’s in that fresh perspective that you create the new patterns of thought around [your grief].” [20:12]

Links:

Heather's website

Medicine Woman Retreats website 

Heather on Instagram 

Heather on LinkedIn

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Thomas Kim, MD joins to discuss ketamine-assisted psychotherapy for anxiety. Dr. Kim is the Chief Medical Officer of Noma Therapy, which is a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy program available via telehealth and in-person with licensed therapists. He has devoted 20 years of his professional life to realizing a value-based approach to healthcare through telehealth.

In this conversation, Dr. Kim shares his journey of working in early telehealth contexts to now working with ketamine. He discusses the research on ketamine treatments for anxiety and explains the significant comorbidity of anxiety, depression, and PTSD, stressing that anxiety is best understood from a more holistic perspective that considers the social determinants of health. Dr. Kim also emphasizes the importance of psychotherapy alongside ketamine dosing sessions, explaining that therapists have a window of opportunity in the days following the ketamine dose to best take advantage of the state of ketamine-induced neuroplasticity the patient is experiencing. In closing, Dr. Kim shares his philosophy of prescribing the least amount of medicine which produces the largest impact for the patient to ensure that side effects are mitigated and financial burdens are reduced. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• Balancing maximal safety and maximal accessibility in medicine

• The research on ketamine treatments for anxiety

• How psychotherapy fits with ketamine treatments

• The neuroscience of why patients can have strong emotional reactions following ketamine sessions

• Stories of success from Dr. Kim’s practice

• The importance of understanding how adverse childhood experiences and social determinants of health significantly contribute to mental health struggles

• Collaborative ketamine-assisted psychotherapy with a patient’s existing therapist
  

Quotes:

“Over time, continued effort in the field [of telehealth] has led to cost-effective, scalable solutions that can reach more people. I’m really hopeful that we can find solutions in the psychedelic and ketamine landscape to do a similar thing.” [5:36]

“A thing that I say routinely to patients is ‘there is no cure in the bottom of the pill bottle—ketamine included.’ They are all incredibly useful and, when used effectively, can provide you meaningful relief from your psychological distress but make no mistake, there is not a cure—which is why I’m such a huge advocate of therapy and which is why ketamine-assisted psychotherapy also needs to be distinguished from ketamine therapy.”  [14:21]

“[We created] an intentionally time-limited plan which places the emphasis on the fact that, one day, you’re going to drive your own bus and you’re not going to need me. It’s a terrible business model—in fact it’s a wonderful business model because it gives us an opportunity to take care of more people because we set the intention of ‘Ketamine is not forever. You’re not broken. You’re struggling and we’re going to get you to a place where you might not need us.’”  [34:04]

Links:

Dr. Kim on LinkedIn

Noma Therapy website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joseph Holcomb Adams joins to discuss the important topic of guruism and cult dynamics in psychedelic communities. Joseph is an ethicist who specializes in issues related to psychedelics, altered states, and transformative experiences.

In this conversation, Joseph introduces the concepts of a guru, guruism, and cult dynamics. He describes the social-psychological mechanisms behind the devotee-guru relationship and the development of ideological conformity in cults, explaining how the heightened states induced by psychedelics can contribute to these dynamics if participants and facilitators are not aware of these dangers and vigilant in guarding against them. Joseph explains that psychedelic experiences can lead to “experiential verification,” where the participant’s sense of the facilitator as a wise spiritual guide can seem to be confirmed through the intense mystical nature of the experience, which in turn can feed into a guru-disciple power dynamic where the participant feels reliant on the facilitator for their healing. In closing, Joseph focuses on the profound importance of education on these topics. He emphasizes that these potentially harmful dynamics will always be present, so raising awareness is crucial as psychedelic healing continues to become more mainstream.

In this episode you'll hear:

• The spectrum of cult dynamics

• How guruism and cult dynamics can become amplified in psychedelic practices 

• How psychedelics influence suggestibility, transference, and projection

• Why it can be easy for psychedelic facilitators to unintentionally fall into guruism

• Ego inflation following psychedelic experiences

• How ecstatic ritual experiences promote group cohesion

• What can be done to address the risks of guruism and cultic dynamics in psychedelic practices

• The importance of informed consent
  

Quotes:

“[During a psychedelic experience] it can be very easy for the participant to basically associate and identify this mind-opening experience, this earth-shattering spiritual experience, with this person who facilitated it for them, who is right there, who seems to know all about this space of consciousness that they’re experiencing.” [13:22]

“If the facilitator… already has a big, inflated sense of their spiritual knowledge and ability, then that’s already right there, pushing them to step into that guru role and this can happen from their own psychedelic use.” [30:06]

“When we’re engaging in psychedelic-enhanced ecstatic group rituals, what we’re doing here is we’re basically using powerful neuropharmacological tools to help us really powerfully tap into these potentialities that are in our primordial nature as social, instinctively religious beings… That’s what we’re messing around with here.” [38:23]

“The most important risk mitigation factors—really it’s education and the awareness that comes from it.” [43:52]

Links:

Joseph’s website

Joseph on LinkedIn

Joseph’s chapter, “Guruism and Cultic Social Dynamics in Psychedelic Practices and Organisations” co-authored with Jules Evans in Current Topics in Behavioral Neurosciences

“Oxytocin modulates charismatic influence in groups” by Ilanit Gordon and Yair Berson, 2018

Psychedelic Safety Flags: A Color System to Help Assess Practitioner Ethics and Safety

Previous episode: The Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Project with Jules Evans

Previous episode: Avoiding the Traps of Psychedelic Self-Absorption with Adam Aronovich PhD(c)

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Sorcha O'Connor, PhD(c) joins to discuss the research into the use of psilocybin to address obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). Sorcha is completing her neuroscience PhD at Imperial College London, specialising in mental health research. She led PsilOCD, a pioneering study investigating low-dose psilocybin as a treatment for both the clinical symptoms and cognitive features of OCD.

In this conversation, Sorcha introduces obsessive-compulsive disorder and discusses the ways medical professionals are currently thinking about this and other related conditions. She mentions that current therapies for OCD often only minimally improve symptoms, emphasizing the need for better treatment options. This led to studies exploring psilocybin as a treatment for OCD - and Sorcha emphasizes that the early trials have shown positive results, often with significant decreases in OCD symptoms. In conclusion, Sorcha discusses the protocol for the PsilOCD study at Imperial College London, with results from this study soon to be published.  

In this episode you'll hear:

• The features of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) 

• The history and development of treatments for OCD

• The theory behind the hypothesis that psilocybin may be effective for OCD

• Trials exploring the efficacy of psychedelic treatments for OCD

• Why psilocybin has come to the fore more than LSD or ketamine for prospective OCD studies

• How patients are evaluated for OCD

Quotes:

“[OCD] is this complex behavioral pattern and certain medications moderately help and nothing seems to be highly effective yet and that definitely points to the need for novel pharmacotherapy.”  [12:46]

“[By utilizing lower doses of psilocybin], people who maybe fixate on their health and on their mental health and sensations and things can benefit from psilocybin without having to overcome that barrier.” [18:25]

Links:

Sorcha on LinkedIn

PsilOCD Study details on the Imperial College London website

Dr. Michael J. Greenberg’s website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Erica Zelfand, ND joins to discuss the important topic of pill shaming in psychedelic communities and how psychedelic medicine and traditional pharmaceuticals can both support healing. Dr. Erica Zelfand specializes in integrative mental health, bridging the gaps between conventional and alternative medicine. In addition to seeing patients in private practice, she also teaches facilitation internationally and leads retreats through Right to Heal.

In this conversation, Dr. Zelfand tackles the issue of pill shaming in psychedelic communities, showing why this rhetoric falls short and ultimately harms patients. She discusses complementary roles for psychedelic and traditional pharmaceutical medicines, suggesting that a medicine like ketamine may be particularly effective in contexts of acute intervention, whereas an SSRI antidepressant may be most effective for maintenance. Dr. Zelfand notes, however, that drug-drug interactions can be a significant concern and stresses the need for medical expertise and supervision in the context of concomitant usage of pharmaceuticals and psychedelics. In closing, she emphasizes that what is ultimately important is that patients are able to progress in healing, and any tools that are able to safely and effectively support this goal have an important role to play and should not be denigrated. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• The pill shaming rhetoric in psychedelic and cannabis communities

• Pharmaceutical contraindications to psychedelic therapy and the necessity of medical supervision for tapering off such medications

• Why comparing traditional antidepressant pharmaceuticals to psychedelic medicines is often an apples to oranges comparison

• The issues with “no pain, no gain” rhetoric in healing

• Psychiatric support for processing repressed memories uncovered during psychedelic journeys

Quotes:

“When I went into medicine, I actually specifically went into integrative medicine, functional medicine, because I didn’t like that patients were being in this position of having to choose: the conventional route or the alternative medicine route. Both routes have their merits and both routes have their shortcomings and I felt like we all deserve to be able to access both and have it be an integrated model.” [3:06]

“The only form of ketamine that is FDA approved for depression—which is Spravato—is only approved in the context in which the person is also taking an oral antidepressant.” [20:48]

“We have data showing that if you feel really really freaked out and anxious during your [psychedelic] trip, your outcomes aren’t necessarily as good. And the biggest predictor of having a positive experience is actually feeling awe. You don’t have to do the ego death thing, but if you can feel awe, if you can feel inspiration during a trip, your outcomes are better. And there’s even data showing that individuals who are on an SSRI and then trip—they may actually have better outcomes than people who don’t take medication.” [24:12]

“I think part of this trepidation is we don’t want to harm anybody through a dangerous, or potentially lethal, drug-drug interaction. That’s one thing. It’s another thing to be like ‘yeah but if you’re using these [pharmaceutical] drugs you’re doing it wrong and you’re not healing right.’ And I think the one often is used as a camouflage for the other—and they’re two separate things.” [38:59]

Links:

Dr. Zelfan’s website

Dr. Zelfand on Instagram

Dr. Zelfand on Twitter

Dr. Zelfan on LinkedIn

Right to Heal website

Psychedelic pill-shaming article by Jules Evans and Shayam Suseelan

Previous episode: Integrating Challenging Psychedelic Experiences with Keith Kurlander, MA

Previous episode: Warning Signs When Selecting a Psychedelic Facilitator with Juliana Mulligan

Previous episode: How to Choose a Psychedelic Facilitator or Retreat Center with Joël Brierre

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Keith Kurlander, MA, LPC, joins to discuss the important topic of integration practices for challenging psychedelic experiences. Keith is the Co-Founder of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute, the largest professional education company specializing in integrative mental health and psychedelic therapy.

In this conversation, Keith begins by exploring the different types of challenging psychedelic experiences and various lingering effects one may experience following a difficult psychedelic journey. He discusses these from a trauma-informed perspective, explaining how a traumatized nervous system can lead to dissociation on the other side of an intense ego-disrupting experience. Keith also shares practices and insights from internal family systems (IFS) for integrating challenging psychedelic experiences. In closing, he emphasizes that psychedelics are not lazer-targeted therapies, so they do carry inherent risks, but through effective integration practices, patients can make healthy meaning out of even negative experiences. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• Lingering issues with ego fragmentation and connections to the dissociative disorder spectrum

• Persisting psychotic disorders following psychedelic experiences

• The difference between CPTSD and PTSD

• Uncovering repressed traumatic memories during psychedelic journeys

• Trauma stemming from difficult psychedelic experiences 

• Challenging spiritual experiences

Quotes:

“The concept of pendulation [is] that we can be more flexible to ease our way into these overwhelming states. So once we are totally overwhelmed, we have to work our way back out gracefully, but as we are doing that, you get a gem as you are coming back… you learn something as you are coming out of that state.” [18:02]

“If people have a psychotic disorder that emerged after their psychedelic use, you need a psychiatrist at that point… If it’s really a psychotic emergence, whether a previous psychotic disorder got triggered or whatever, you need a psychiatrist to work with you on that.” [20:07]

“I believe all these mental health conditions have a trauma process underneath them. I don’t know how you isolate a trauma process from a mental health condition” [25:30]

“It’s about working with a person’s meaning-making structure: is the meaning they’re making creating more psychological flexibility or less psychological flexibility? That’s a really important question to hold as a therapist because people will make all kinds of meaning up from these experiences but if they’re creating meaning that’s creating more rigid structures of how they see the world, then they get disappointed more often.” [34:21]

Links:

Psychiatry Institute website

Keith’s website

Keith on Instagram

Higher Practice podcast 

Previous episode: The Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Project with Jules Evans

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, East Forest joins to discuss several aspects at the intersection of music and psychedelics, including how he created the music that so many have used when facilitating psychedelic journeys. East Forest’s latest project, a feature length documentary film called Music For Mushrooms, follows him through the psychedelic renaissance on a mission to pair music with psychedelics to bring about transformative healing to a world in crisis.

In this conversation, East Forest discusses how he first got started making music for psychedelic journeys and the considerations that go into curating the right sound to best support these types of deep inner experiences. He emphasizes the importance of avoiding music that sounds overly sentimental and lacks the depth and richness important for effective psychedelic exploration. He also discusses the importance of maintaining the container, whether in the context of psychedelic facilitation or purely music-focused ceremonies, and suggested that sternness and fortitude have an important function in this context. In closing, East Forest suggests that music is so powerful because of the way it is able to be a point of connection to integrate experiences and bring people together.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Composing soundtracks for psychedelic journeys with different substances

• Integrating nature sounds into compositions

• Flow states and music

• Bringing live elements of music and sound into a psychedelic ceremony

• Singing as a regulating technique during a psychedelic journey

• The intersection of music, technology, and psychedelics

Quotes:

“If we look at psychedelic experiences and ceremonies from indigenous use, all of them that I know of were guided by music.” [3:16]

“I think it’s more the intention behind the music. I don’t think there’s a particular thing you have to do or not do, but I don’t think you can just play any music. So I think it’s the intention of the music and the intention of the room and the intention of the participants… There has to be an invitation on all of those fronts for that doorway to open.” [16:11]

“I think we’re looking for music and for space that is supportive of that through-line and gives us enough time to be in a process—and that’s another advantage of having these longform, intentional, bespoke songs because they are probably going to give more of that time and space for these processes to occur.” [32:43]

Links:

East Forest’s website

East Forest on Instagram

East Forest on Tik Tok

Music for Mushrooms documentary website

Music for Mushrooms Official Documentary Soundtrack

Winter Solstice Retreat at Esalen

Music for Psychedelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Eric Sienknecht, PsyD joins to discuss the roles of music in psychedelic sessions. Dr. Sienknecht is a licensed clinical psychologist and co-founder and lead trainer at Polaris Insight Center, a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy clinic and training center. He has worked as sub-investigator and study therapist on the Lykos-sponsored MDMA-AT clinical trials for PTSD and currently is also a supervisor and educator in MDMA-AT for various clinical trial sites. Dr. Sienknecht has a deep interest in the role and use of music in ketamine and MDMA sessions and specializes in curating playlists for psychedelic experiences.

In this conversation, Dr. Sienknecht discusses how he first realized the importance of music in psychedelic experiences. He shares insights on how different genres and moods of music may be better suited to certain phases of the psychedelic experience and how he works individually with clients to better tailor a session playlist to their personal taste. Dr. Sienknecht even discusses how to strategically include shadow elements in a playlist to facilitate a client going deeper in their journey. In closing, he emphasizes how the intersection of psychedelic experiences and music remains understudied with only a few book chapters and articles dealing directly with the topic, so there is much yet to learn and explore in this exciting niche. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• What is universal vs what is individual when it comes to music and psychedelics

• Why Dr. Sienknecht avoids music with lyrics in a participant’s native language for psychedelic sessions

• The research on different genres of music for psychedelic journeys

• Balancing planning music in advance and adapting to the specific pace and mood of the client’s experience

• Utilizing nature sounds alongside or within music during psychedelic sessions

• Binaural beats and brainwaves

Quotes:

“There’s generally better tracks to use for the opening phase of a [psychedelic] journey, for the peak phase of a journey [etc], and there’s been some research into that as well.” [6:05]

“Taste is so subjective… Knowing your client and talking with them beforehand about their taste and letting that information really inform how you create the playlist is really important.” [27:02]

“One of the benefits of doing psychedelic therapy is that you can surrender control over elements of set and setting—not that those aren’t negotiable and ongoingly negotiable, as they should be—but there’s something about [the fact that the therapist] has got the music taken care of, the room set up, everything is in its right place. All I have to do is fast from food for a few hours, have my intention, and step into the journey—and that can help someone to really just trust and surrender more into the experience.” [30:20]

Links:

Integral Psychedelic Therapy edited by Jason A. Butler, Genesee Herzberg, and Richard Louis Miller

Dr. Sienknecht on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center on LinkedIn

Polaris Insight Center website

Music for Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy Sessions training with Dr. Sienknecht at Polaris Insight Center

Previous episodes: Psychedelics and Nature: The Symbiotic Relationship with Dr. Sam Gandy

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Giorgia Caspani, PhD joins to discuss the intersection of psychedelics and the gut microbiome and ramifications for future personalized medicine. Dr. Caspani is a neuroscientist and computational biologist working at the intersection of gut microbiome, psychedelics and personalized medicine.

In this conversation, Dr. Caspani discusses her research published in the article “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis.” She shares what we know about how psychedelics impact the gut microbiome from initial studies and what questions remain unanswered. She draws connections between the way the gut microbiome metabolizes SSRI drugs and how serotonin impacts the gut microbiota to hypothesize the potential ways psychedelics interact with this complex living system. In closing, Dr. Caspani discusses the possibility of predicting responses to psychedelic treatments using data from the microbiota, and the research currently happening to make this possible. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How human beings and our gut microbiome co-evolved and the benefits achieved through this symbiotic relationship

• The correlation between the gut microbiome and stress levels 

• The effects of psychedelics on immune responses

• Why personalized medicine may be a more effective approach for treating depression

• How personalized medicine could help make psychedelic therapies more accessible and effective

Quotes:

“Without our gut microbes… We wouldn't be able to really perform a lot of the metabolic functions that we rely on as humans.” [4:26]

“The gut microbiome is different in every person—it’s very unique. And so every person carries this unique microbial signature that can potentially map out to all of the treatment options that we already have available; it’s just a matter of understanding and identifying markers that can predict which patient will benefit from a specific drug.” [18:22]

“[We hypothesize that] the gut microbiome shapes individual responses to psychedelic treatment. And so if that [hypothesis] is correct, if that is true, we could potentially target the microbiome, change the composition of the gut microbiome like we wanted to, to be able to maximize the effectiveness of these [psychedelic] drugs.” [25:14]

Links:

Dr. Caspani’s article, “Mind over matter: the microbial mindscapes of psychedelics and the gut-brain axis”

Dr. Caspani on LinkedIn

Dr. Caspani on X

Onaya Science website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Star Rose Bond, LCSW joins to discuss the topic of using psychedelic-assisted therapy to address intergenerational trauma. As seen in Huffpost, Vice and Psychology Today, Star Rose is a Renegade Psychotherapist, Social Activist, Clinical Supervisor for PEARL Institute and Co-Founder of Life Camp. With a Bachelor’s degree from NYU and a master’s from Columbia, Star brings 15 years of clinical trauma therapeutic services and experience serving marginalized, under-resourced and at risk populations specializing in harm reduction and PTSD recovery.

In this conversation, Star introduces the topic of intergenerational trauma and explores how psychedelic experiences may be leveraged to address this pernicious condition. She begins by explaining what intergenerational trauma means, how it gets passed down, and how it manifests. Star talks about the importance of psychedelic therapists and facilitators having awareness of trauma-informed modalities in order to better serve these populations. She also discusses the complexities of addressing generational trauma, and how it can often be difficult to process sensitive topics within the family unit. However, in conclusion, Star emphasizes that the capacity to heal is an intrinsic aspect of human existence, and that even in particularly dark moments, it is possible to get in touch with this possibility. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How the conditions of Capitalism produce and exacerbate chronic stress

• The profound impact of neglect and abuse in early childhood 

• The unique experience of intergenerational trauma for BIPOC peoples and the recent rekindling of a spirit of connection in these communities due to psychedelic medicines 

• How processing intergenerational trauma can transform familial relationships

• Ethical and practical considerations for facilitators and therapists guiding clients through psychedelic experiences aimed at resolving deep-seated trauma

• What to look for in a psychedelic-assisted therapist or facilitator

Quotes:

“Just because you have several students or several clients who’ve experienced the same trauma, don’t make the assumption that they’re all experiencing it the same way. Or maybe you’ll meet a client who has had trauma similar to yours—don’t assume that they have undergone the same emotional impact or psychological impact as you. The truth of the matter is we are complex beings. We have so many different moving variables that go into our psychology and that essentially indicate or play a role in how we respond to things.” [8:43]

“We can’t always express or understand why things happen the way they do. But, we can start to make meaning through a spiritual understanding which in turn lends itself to a sense of ease and comfort.” [22:20]

“When you are going into these experiences as a facilitator—whatever your background is—it is of the utmost importance that you are hyper cognizant and hyper aware of the harms that can be caused by not being aware of the ways in which you can navigate someone else’s trauma as it shows up.”  [25:02]

Links:

Star’s website

Star on Instagram

Previous episode: Can Your Genes Predict Response to MDMA Therapy? with Dr. Dave Rabin MD, PhD

Previous episode: Warning Signs When Selecting a Psychedelic Facilitator with Juliana Mulligan

Previous episode: How to Choose a Psychedelic Facilitator or Retreat Center with Joël Brierre

My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies by Resmaa Menakem

SHINE Support website

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, L.J. Lumpkin III, MA LMFT joins to discuss the potential of psychedelic medicine in the context of sports psychology. L.J. is a therapist, adjunct professor at Pepperdine University, a coach, author, speaker, and the CEO of Nomad Healing Practices.

In this conversation, L.J. shares his personal experience as an athlete and discusses the difficult transition to a new life once an athlete’s career has concluded. He compares the need to reinvent oneself in this context to ego death and explains how psychedelic-assisted therapy may be helpful for navigating this transition. L.J. also discusses the intense pressure athletes are under to perform, mentioning that the drive to win can often overpower the more basic mode of play at the heart of athleticism. This is an area where he finds ketamine to be a particularly powerful medicine, as its dissociate quality can help athletes tune out the high pressure expectations. L.J. also discusses leveraging the critical learning period provided by psychedelic therapies to institute new healthy habits, something which could benefit athletes both on and off the field. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How ketamine-assisted therapy may be able to help athletes with their unique psychological challenges

• Integrating mindfulness to prepare for psychedelic therapies

• Leveraging the somatic component of psychedelic therapies to address pain

• The importance of integration practices and support systems

• The differences between working with psilocybin versus ketamine

• Drowning out critics and sports commentary and getting back to basics with the help of psychedelic therapy

Quotes:

“If you’ve been paid millions of dollars to hit and be aggressive for so long and that’s how you’ve dealt with your emotions—and it wasn’t a problem because you were being rewarded for it—what do you do when you’re not getting rewarded for that anymore? When you have to actually change how you process emotion—there’s not a playbook for that.” [7:46]

“Just talking about [mental health] and normalizing it—all of a sudden you’re allowed to get help, you’re allowed to heal, you’re allowed to go to practices that have been practiced throughout human civilization. We’re bringing [psychedelics] back and I think that athletes are the ones who are really going to be the ship of normalization.” [22:38]

“Especially if you’re off season, those other medicines [besides ketamine] I think they’re going to be even more helpful because that might encourage the rest, it might encourage being able to connect with family systems. I think for some of the more acute stuff, the ketamine does serve a great purpose in that.” [28:16]

Links:

L.J. on Instagram

L.J. on LinkedIn

Nomad Healing Practices website 

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, podcast host Dr. Lynn Marie Morski comes on the mic to provide a five-year update on the podcast and share the changes in the legal landscape of psychedelics in the past half-decade. Lynn Marie Morski, MD, JD is the president of the Psychedelic Medicine Association and host of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast. She sits on the advisory boards of Psychedelics Today, Cybin, VETS, Inc (Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions), the Oxenberg Foundation, and the Ketamine Task Force. Dr. Morski is a Mayo Clinic-trained physician in family medicine and sports medicine, as well as an attorney and former adjunct law professor.

In this anniversary episode you’ll hear about the legally-accessible forms of psychedelic therapy which have come to prominence as potential mainstream therapeutics in recent years. Dr. Mroski shares Information on the legal adult use framework for psilocybin in Oregon, including licensing, costs, and exclusion criteria. She also discusses programs in Australia and Canada that will allow certain patients to access psychedelic therapies such as psilocybin- and MDMA-assisted therapy. In addition to classic psychedelic medicines, Dr. Morski also shares information on the medicine which is currently most accessible: ketamine. She discusses the difference between S-ketamine and R-ketamine and on-label and off-label uses of this substance. In closing, Dr. Morski presents some of the finer details of the current landscape of insurance coverage for ketamine. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• The difference between decriminalization and legalization

• The FDA decision to deny the Lykos Therapeutics’ new drug application for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

• The upcoming Colorado psilocybin program

• Psychiatric licenses to administer MDMA and LSD to patients in Australia 

• The Special Access Program for psychedelic therapies in Canada 

• Legal ketamine access in the United States

• How the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast chooses guests

Quotes:

“I wanted to focus mostly on what is legal because we know that’s the way things are going to be the most monitored and therefore safely accessible.” [20:45]

“People are in this industry because they want other people to feel better and they want to help and they’re so generous with their time” [25:31]

Links:
clinicaltrials.gov - the place to find information on upcoming clinical trials for psychedelic medicine for which you may qualify

Insurance Coverage for Psychedelic Therapy by Vincent Joralemon

SPRAVATO withMe Patient Support Program

Enthea insurance

Previous episode: How to Choose A Psychedelic Facilitator or Retreat Center with Joël Brierre

Previous episode: Warning Signs When Selecting a Psychedelic Facilitator with Juliana Mulligan

Previous episode: Ketamine Scientific Research with Dr. Jason Wallach

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Dr. David Rabin, MD, PhD joins to discuss whether genes can be predictive of one’s response to MDMA Therapy. Dr. Rabin, a board-certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist, is the co-founder & chief medical officer at Apollo Neuroscience. In addition to his clinical psychiatry practice, Dr. Rabin is also the co-founder & executive director of The Board of Medicine, and a psychedelic clinical researcher currently evaluating the mechanism of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy in treatment-resistant mental illnesses.

In this conversation, Dr. Rabin shares his research into epigenetic responses to MDMA-therapy, exploring topics of trauma, gene expression, and personalized, data-driven medicine. He discusses the seminal discovery that trauma can cause epigenetic changes in the structure and function of the cortical system and his own research findings that uncovered a reversal of these changes associated with MDMA-assisted therapy. Dr. Rabin hopes further research in this area may allow for leveraging epigenetic data to determine which psychedelic medicine a particular patient may be most likely to respond to and track how effective a given treatment has been. In closing, he expresses excitement about bringing objective biological precision to mental health treatment, drawing a parallel to the discovery of antibiotics which allowed for much more tailored treatments of infections which has saved countless lives. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• Response rates to psychedelic-assisted therapy for PTSD versus conventional therapies

• The consequences of ineffective treatment for PTSD

• MDMA-assisted therapy as preventative care and the societal cost savings involved

• Genetics, epigenetics, and gene expression

• Using epigenetic data from simple saliva swabs to better gauge response to MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

Quotes:

“Most of the treatments we have available today for PTSD—that are the FDA-cleared, considered gold standard treatments—only actually induce remission from illness… in about 30% of people. So of the 100% of the millions of people every year that are getting treated for PTSD, with the best treatments that we have that are currently available, only 30%—at best—are getting better long term. Everyone else has a diagnosis of PTSD for life.”  [3:55]

“MDMA-assisted therapy for people with PTSD is having an effect that’s similar to what we saw with the discovery of antibiotics for infection.” [8:07]

“Folks with severe PTSD who went through this trial, when they received MDMA-assisted therapy, [the researchers] saw a statistically significant change—in terms of repair—of the cortisol receptor’s epigenetic code which reflects improved structure and function of that receptor site. But not only that—we saw that the amount that people got better… was directly correlated with… the amount of remodeling and repair at the receptor site.” [18:36]

“Epigenetic code is actually something that can be modified by experiences in our environment. And trauma—or PTSD diagnoses, a series of significant traumas over time—can in fact change epigenetic code of the cortisol receptor gene. And that changes how the cortisol receptor gene gets made, and it changes its function.”  [29:52]

“PTSD is a disorder of learned fear. How do we treat PTSD? In animals and humans, we provide the same stimulation that they were getting that they are now afraid of in the context of safety. That’s how exposure therapy works, that’s how MDMA therapy works to some extent—all of these tools and techniques work to treat PTSD effectively… in the same way. It’s called safety conditioning.” [36:48]

Links:

Dr. Rabin’s article: Pilot study suggests DNA methylation of the glucocorticoid receptor gene (NR3C1) is associated with MDMA-assisted therapy treatment response for severe PTSD

Dr. Rabin’s website

Dr. Rabin on LinkedIn

Dr. Rabin on Instagram 

Dr. Rabin on Twitter 

Apollo Neuroscience website 

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Mark Braunstein, DO joins to discuss the promise and the peril of ketamine. Dr. Braunstein graduated medical school in 1997 then completed a General Psychiatry Residency at the University of New Mexico and then a fellowship in Child and Adolescent psychiatry at Maine Medical Center in 2002. Upon graduation from his fellowship and becoming board certified in general psychiatry he established a private practice in Durango, Colorado where plant medicine became part of his everyday integrative psychiatric practice. 

In this conversation, Dr. Braunstein shares some of the developments in the world of ketamine in the past three years since his previous episode, drawing on his own experience providing ketamine-assisted therapies. He stresses issues of grandiosity that can arise both when working with ketamine and when taking the medicine—issues which in the worst case and fuel ketamine use disorders. Dr. Braunstein stresses the importance of clinicians providing ketamine treatments being realistic and upfront about the potential harms of ketamine when advising prospective patients. In closing, he warns against the dangers of being in an echo chamber which reinforces potentially pathological substance use, especially for clinicians in the ketamine space. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• Why ketamine has an addictive potential and how ketamine addiction presents

• Ways to treat ketamine use disorder 

• The importance of informed consent

• What patients should look for when seeking a ketamine provider

• The importance of ketamine providers working with multiple modalities and having multiple tools in the toolbox besides ketamine 

Quotes:

“Here’s what’s scary to me about ketamine: these people that I’ve seen having problems [with ketamine use] are largely lifetime recreational psychedelic/drug users without problems. And these are people who have made it to age fifty, smoking [cannabis], tripping a little bit, their whole life without having a problem—then at fifty years old, find themselves hooked on something for the first time.” [12:30]

“[Ketamine] is not a microdosing medication… There is no such thing as ketamine microdosing. You think of microdosing as sub-perceptual. Everyone that I’ve met that’s abusing ketamine, it was not a sub-perceptual effect—they were very much abusing it to have that perceived effect. Maybe not a psychedelic effect—usually an intoxicated wonky effect is what they’re going for. And people refer to that as microdosing. It’s not microdosing. It’s abusing small doses.” [17:11]

“What do I see that makes me concerned with someone I’m talking to—a clinician or a client? That grandiosity. So that gets me concerned right away when I hear about these ‘downloads’ because that’s where … other psychedelics can have dependency too. You see people … they go for aya ceremonies every week after week after week. So there can be an addiction to the download or to the release.” [34:35]

“The people I know that have been successful in this line of work (from a patient standpoint), whether they’re a clinician or not, have been the ones that have embraced the work. And just knowing that this is going to be a process and I’m in it to win it, for life. I’m working on myself.”  [35:40]

Links:

Dr. Braunstein on LinkedIn

Ketamine Research Foundation website

NeuPath Mind Wellness website 

Ketamine Training Center website

Previous episode: Ketamine for Alcohol Use Disorder with Steven Mandel, MD

Previous episode: Avoiding the Traps of Psychedelic Self-Absorption with Adam Aronovich, PhD(c)

Previous episode: Navigating Psychedelic Narcissism with Adam Aronovich

Previous episode: Psychedelic Therapy: Slow Down to Heal Faster with Sunny Strasburg, LMFT 

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Steve Rio joins to discuss 5-MeO-DMT for Trauma and PTSD. Steve is a psychedelic facilitator and Co-Founder of Enfold, which offers a groundbreaking psychospiritual model that combines psychedelic intensives, coaching, and community to help individuals heal trauma and reach their full potential. 

In this conversation, Steve shares his journey of how he got into facilitating 5-MeO-DMT experiences and insights on working safely and effectively with this medicine over the course of his practice. He discusses the screening procedure he uses before clearing clients for facilitated 5-MeO-DMT experiences to ensure safety as much as possible when working with this powerful psychedelic. Steve also talks about how he tailors his work with clients based on the state of their nervous system and their unique personality. In closing, Steve emphasizes the somatic quality of 5-MeO-DMT experiences, sharing different types of experiences people typically have on the medicine and how these can best be integrated.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Preparation for safe and effective 5-MeO-DMT experiences

• Stories of transformation following 5-MeO-DMT healing for PTSD and focused integration practices

• How common 5-MeO-DMT reactivations are, and when they typically happen

• Issues of spiritual bypassing in underground psychedelic facilitation

• How to navigate informed consent in the context of facilitating psychedelic experiences

Quotes:

“At the peak of the 5-MeO experience, there is no mind… When people talk about the death and the rebirth experience with 5-MeO, what we’re really talking about is relaxing and essentially dissolving the ego entirely so there is no experience of ‘you’ in the experience—you become one with the experience. But… what’s possible there is that we then access the nervous system and we see these very dramatic energetic releases and people often are physically reliving traumatic experiences and physically releasing the fight, flight, freeze response that may have happened or not happened.” [6:52]

“Trauma is complex and for some people it’s not that simple. For some people, they go through a six- to twelve-month process after 5-MeO-DMT that is really challenging.” [22:37]

“So [we’re] helping people… build sensitivity in their nervous system—reconnect with sensitivity and slowing things down and building more awareness and learning how to notice their emotions as sensations in the body before they become thought patterns.”  [32:00]

“I think one of the challenges in all of this is that people will lie to you to get to your experience because they’re desperate for the healing. And you have to be really careful about the conversations you have and asking open-ended questions and really listening to your intuition—and really being grounded in that.” [40:28] 

“What we’re doing here I would say there’s obviously a psychological component to it, but often that happens in the weeks and months afterwards. What’s happening here is a much more somatic experience and it can be very confusing and challenging for the mind of a person… you’ve paid all this money, you’ve prepared for weeks and months, you’ve been thinking about it, you come have this experience… Right after the ceremony for some people, the thought is ‘what just happened?’ and ‘did anything happen?’ and ‘did it work?’ because there’s very rarely like an immediate insight on ‘here’s how you’re going to make your life better’—that’s not what comes out of this experience. What comes out of this experience is a dramatic shift in how your body feels and often people will report feeling emotionally lighter or that they lost ten pounds. It’s hard to explain, but the way peoples’ eyes light up the day after the ceremony is so different—like they often just look different coming in and leaving.” [42:56]

Links:

Enfold Website

Enfold on Instagram

Enfold on YouTube

Still In It: 5-MeO-DMT Stories

Previous episode: Psychedelic Therapy: Slow Down to Heal Faster with Sunny Strasburg, LMFT

Previous episode: Psychedelic Adjunct Series: Somatic Therapy with Jenna Valentine, DACM, LAc

Previous episode: Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy for Accelerated Growth with Nick Brüss, EdD, LMFT

Previous episode: When *Not* to Proceed with a Planned Psychedelic Journey with Rick Barnett, PsyD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Sunny Strasburg joins to open the conversation of leveraging lower doses of psychedelic substances for more effective healing. Sunny Strasburg, LMFT, a licensed psychotherapist, educator, and pioneering author, specializes in psychedelic therapies and training clinicians to be skilled and trauma-informed psychedelic therapists. As the founder and author of The Theradelic Approach, she equips clinicians with trauma-informed psychedelic-assisted therapy methods, blending IFS, EMDR, archetypal psychology, trauma-informed care, and her extensive experience.

In this conversation, Sunny shares insights drawn from Internal Family Systems (IFS) and explores how these perspectives can help inspire more effective psychedelic work, especially with lower doses. She emphasizes the importance of adequate preparation and not over-valorizing intense psychedelic experiences, noting that these therapies themselves can be traumatic if not handled with care. Sunny also discusses how one’s own internal protectors have adaptive rolls and display a lot of compassionate intelligence, so even though these parts may initially provide a barrier to deep trauma work, it is important for therapists to work collaboratively with these parts of a client’s psyche. In closing she talks about how to better set reasonable expectations in group psychedelic therapy and retreat settings, where integration can easily turn into a competition of who had the most intense experience, with things like ego dissolution becoming the barometer for healing. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• How “protector systems” and “rubber band effects” manifest in high-dose psychedelic therapy sessions

• Uncovering previously unknown traumas during psychedelic therapies and how therapists can be better prepared for this situation

• How therapists can skillfully work with symbolic material that arises in psychedelic journeys 

• The importance of slowing down and letting the client guide the pace when addressing serious traumas in particular

• Differences between ketamine, MDMA, and the classic psychedelics in terms of effects on the fear center of the brain

• Leveraging critical learning periods in therapy to reprocess traumatic memories

Quotes:

“Being a trauma therapist, you have to be skilled enough to know what is symbolic in a psychedelic journey, what’s a literal memory… You don’t want to do any kind of leading or prompting the client to fill in anything or directing them to anything—you’re really tracking where they are and letting them uncover their own path. Again, at the speed in which their protector system is ready for that.” [22:43]

“These parts want people to remember. They want to heal, they want to let their stories be told. And so our job as therapists is to clear the clutter so we can really hear the system and trust the system. The system knows.” [28:02]

“Trauma is like a sliver that’s buried in the arm—like in the deep skin of your arm and it’s got an infection around it. And all of your coping mechanisms, all of your protectors (using IFS language), is like building a giant layer of scar tissue on top of that. And you could just go through life with that, and you could just put lotion on the top of that scar and just try to make it look pretty—and that’s okay. But you could go in and surgically remove the sliver that’s been offending your system the whole time. And once you remove that sliver, you will start to heal—your arm will heal, it won’t have an infection anymore, right? But removing that sliver hurts. It’s painful. It’s a process. But you don’t have to deal with that sliver anymore. And that’s kind of how I imagine going through trauma work.” [31:08]

“I’ve had clients that I’ve worked with using EMDR, IFS for years, we’ve made some progress, but then we get ketamine on board and it’s totally helped them and amplified the benefit.” [35:13]

“Trust your protector system. Slow down. I promise, if you slow down and really get curious about what your protectors need, you will go so much further with these medicines. It really is not a race. It’s slow and steady, and you’re going to be able to get more work done.” [40:23]

Links:

Sunny’s website

Sunny on LinkedIn

Sunny on Instagram

Previous episode: Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy for Accelerated Growth with Nick Brüss, EdD, LMFT

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Dr. Hans Eriksson joins to discuss the potential of non-dissociative ketamine. Dr. Eriksson, Chief Medical Officer at HMNC Brain Health, is a highly respected drug developer and clinical psychiatrist with over 20 years of pharmaceutical experience. Prior to HMNC Brain Health, Dr. Eriksson served as Chief Medical Officer at COMPASS Pathways and previously as Senior Director of Clinical Research at Lundbeck and Medical Science Director at AstraZeneca.

In this conversation, Dr. Eriksson shares what inspired him to move from clinical practice to drug development, and why he sees so much potential in developing non-dissociative forms of ketamine. He discusses the ways the dissociative effects of ketamine decrease the accessibility of this treatment due to the fact that these changes in perception are undesirable for a significant portion of patients. Dr. Eriksson also shares results from preliminary studies of non-dissociative ketamine which showed efficacy in inducing anti-depressant effects. In closing, Dr. Eriksson discusses why he thinks the experiential element of the classical psychedelics play an important role in their efficacy as mental health treatments, but why this might not be the case when it comes to ketamine. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• The history of ketamine

• The pharmacology of ketamine’s dissociative effect

• The relationship between ketamine dose and antidepressant effect 

• The possibility of bladder issues and addiction with ketamine and whether non-dissociative forms of ketamine would also have these potentials

• How Dr. Eriksson thinks about combining psychotherapy with ketamine treatments

Quotes:

“We are aiming for a similar exposure to the drug as you achieve with, for instance, an intravenous administration, but we are achieving a much lower peak concentration, maximum concentration of the compound. So that is one of the characteristics of our formulation.” [10:58]

“Our view is that it's probably better to try to use the metabolism in the body as a tool to achieve very low exposure to ketamine but high exposure to the downstream metabolites.” [23:19]

Links:

Dr. Eriksson on LinkedIn

HMNC Brain Health on LinkedIn

HMNC Brain Health website

Previous episode: Potential Benefits of Non-Hallucinogenic Psychedelics with Kurt Rasmussen, PhD

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui