Psychedelics Today Podcast

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In this episode Kyle and Joe sit down and discuss Esketamine, a new FDA approved drug that is a derivative of Ketamine. They invite quotes from professionals who have experience with generic Ketamine and to voice their opinions.

1. Janssen Pharmaceutica has announced an FDA approved derivative of Ketamine, Esketamine, called Spravato.
2. The new drug is facing critique on its pricing, route of administration as well as functional differences when compared to the traditional, generic Ketamine.
3. Joe and Kyle invite professionals in the field who have experience with generic Ketamine to voice their opinions, hopes and concerns about Spravato.

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Trip Journal                                               Integration Workbook

• Janssen Pharmaceutica, a Johnson & Johnson Subsidiary has created a derivative of Ketamine called Esketamine and has gone through the whole FDA approval process
• There has been some concern about a big pharmaceutical company, Janssen coming in and creating a ‘new molecule’ and introducing an FDA approved ‘psychedelic’ to make generic Ketamine obsolete

• There is going to be price differences based on routes of administration (Intravenous vs lozenges)
• $1.59 at 100 milligrams (93% bioavailable when administered IM)
• The list price of Esketamine through Janssen will be $590-$885 per treatment session based on the dosage taken which will vary between patients
  • During the first month of therapy, that would add up to $4720-$6785 After the first month, maintenance therapy could range from $2300-$3500
  • Joe says Ketamine should be cheap

• Scott Shannon, Director of the Wholeness Center
• Joe reads a quote from Scott that says that the new Janssen Esketamine product is overpriced, the research data showed that only 2 out of 5 studies demonstrated effectiveness, and generic Ketamine is much more effective and cheaper than Esketamine

• Insurance might cover Esketamine
• Kyle says he hasn't heard of too many generic Ketamine sessions being covered by Insurance

• The approval of Esketamine by the FDA is controversial based on the route of administration, cost and functional differences
• Only 8-50% of the Esketamine dose is effective
• Some of the benefits of Esketamine are it's legitimizing of the existing generic
• Ketamine use as well as an Insurance overview of Ketamine and Esketamine via cost analysis
• Esketamine is not new, it has been around for a long time

• Physicians have been able to provide Ketamine for decades
• Janssen was able to get the FDA to approve literally half of what generic Ketamine is
• There are a lot of unknowns for Esketamine yet, it hasn't even hit the shelves yet
• Kyle says Ketamine has been used to bring patients internally, like most psychedelic sessions
  • Kyle also says Ketamine is more dissociating, where classic tryptamines like psilocybin are more activating

• Hypertension, stroke, intracranial mass/hemorrhage and cautions like pregnancy, substance abuse, etc.
• It's pretty available in the underground, so it could have the potential for risk of abuse
• Recreational experiences have the opportunity to be the most therapeutic and eye-opening experience
• Audiobook - Function of Reason by Alfred North Whitehead
  • "I need not continue the discussion. The case is too clear for elaboration. Yet the trained body of physiologists under the influence of the ideas germane to their successful methodology entirely ignore the whole mass of adverse evidence. We have here a colossal example of anti-empirical dogmatism arising from a successful methodology. Evidence which lies outside the method simply does not count.We are, of course, reminded that the neglect of this evidence arises from the fact that it lies outside the scope of the methodology of the science. That method consists in tracing the persistence of the physical and chemical principles throughout physiological operations." - quote from Function of Reason

• Joe invites listeners to ask questions and leave a message of opinions and such (either anonymously or using your name)
• Google voice 970-368-3133

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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This is an exclusive interview with Elizabeth Gibson from Dreamshadow, a segment from the Psychedelics Today, Navigating Psychedelics Masterclass, Lessons on Self Care and Integration.

1. A common mistake people make is thinking all of the work happens in the session, when really only a portion of the work happens in the session, and the rest happens afterward during integration.
2. It's important not to isolate yourself after this work, it's important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience.
3. Elizabeth compares journeywork to planting a seed. You can't grow a whole plant in one session, you simply plant the seed. You determine how it grows by how you water and cultivate it (integrate it), it's a process that can't be rushed.

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Trip Journal                                                  Integration Workbook

• Integration is one of the most important aspects of work with extraordinary experiences
• “How do you take material that's come up and bring it into your everyday life? How do you realize the benefit of the intense work that you've done?” - Elizabeth

• Elizabeth has been facilitating Breathwork for 23 years
• She was a part of MDMA trials in the 80’s when it was legal
• Elizabeth helped edit the MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy Manual

• A common mistake that people make is thinking all of the work is in the session itself, but really that's only half of the work. The other half of the work happens after leaving the session, the integration.
• Integration is about being more present with ourselves in every moment, not just yearning to get back to the state of the session
• The long term subtle changes that happen over time are the most important
• Stan Grof says that aerobic activity like swimming, running, etc is a way of connecting with energy and feelings that operate at deeper levels
• Elizabeth says she likes drawing immediately after an experience to work with it symbolically, and then journaling a day or two later once she is able to verbalize her experience
  • “Just do it before you think too much about it”

• It's important not to isolate yourself after this work
  • “The principle of community is really important. We can't do this work completely on our own.” - Elizabeth
  • We are all the descendants of successful tribes
  • It's important to search out people who will be understanding of your experience
• If there is somatic stuff happening in the body, it is a good idea to do some body work, such as deep tissue massage
• On the other side, if we are holding the space for others who went through a session, it's important for us to make ourselves available for them
  • Just to talk and to be heard is so important on its own
• Email follow up is tricky because a person can pour their heart out or be very vague or not get deep in their email
  • The email follow up method is also tricky because of difficult response time and interpretation of responses
• Facebook groups can be a helpful way of finding the others and creating community to be able to reach out to understanding individuals
• Elizabeth says it's like the analogy of seeds being planted, you decide how you want it to grow and how you cultivate it
  • Acting too quickly after an experience isn't always the best idea, its best to keep it slow

• Safe setting
• Access to people who will be able to support you afterwards

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Elizabeth Gibson, M.S., holds a bachelor’s degree in literature and a master’s degree in biology from The University of Tulsa. She has completed Herbert Benson’s Clinical Training in Mind/Body Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Previously she worked as a consultant at Arthur D. Little, Inc., and Radian Corporation in the areas of environmental protection and food research. She is a writer, editor and homemaker with interests in environmental literacy, yoga, music and gardening. Elizabeth is the editor of Stanislav Grof ’s The Ultimate Journey: Consciousness and the Mystery of Death and a contributor to the teaching manual MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy for the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, both published by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. For the past 12 years, she has been responsible for local news for the Town of Pawlet, and from 2008 – 2014 she was the editor of the weekly environment section for the Rutland Herald and Montpelier Times Argus newspapers in Vermont.

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In this episode, Joe holds conversation with Dr. Michael Sapiro, Clinical Psychologist out of Boise, Idaho. They cover topics surrounding how meditation and mindfulness intersect with psychedelia as well as psychic ability, altered states and integration.

1. Meditation and psychedelics have a lot of overlap such as ego dissolution and unity.
2. Dr. Sapiro believes that meditation and mindfulness bring personal awakening in order to create collective transformation.
3. Both meditation and psychedelics are the most beneficial when they are integrated into our waking life and when we use our experiences to help others and our planet.

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• Attended John F Kennedy University where he received his PsyD
• He focused on meditation research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences
• He is from Chicago, IL
• He spent time in Thailand for the Peace Corps
• A lot of his experience was from his time in the Bay Area
• There is more data coming out about awareness based meditative states and psychedelic states and how they relate subjectively to each other

• Transformational Psychology, Integration based
• He integrates the Buddhist Dharma, Western Psychology, Non-dual meditation and philosophy, and Noetic Sciences into his practice
• Michael sees 20-28 patients a week
• Kashmir Shaivism
  • It's a dissolving type of experience, Its a non-dualistic style of tradition
  • The non-dual tradition helps one just be “whole and unbroken” and focus on the present and now
• He does the human work in the Buddhism Dharma style, and the spiritual work with the restful piece of being in the now, the focus being integration

• His vision has been on enhancing personal awakening in order to create collective transformation
• He wants to help communities and states and nations to transform via individual awakening
• He has worked with law enforcement agents, military vets, community members, a variety of people at different levels all the way from grounding to stability to thriving
• He always ends each Sangha with saying 'take this work and apply it to your neighbors'
  • A Sangha is a buddhist community of monks/individuals in support of each other
• “People have such a deep connection to nature when you come out of the psychedelic experience. You start taking care of the environment differently than before went you went in.” - Michael
  • “We now have data on greater environmental concern and stewardship after the psychedelic experience.” - Joe
  • People who are consciously interacting with things outside of themselves have a greater care for those things. “If I am hurting the world I am hurting myself.” - Michael
  • “Hopefully one of the bigger things that come out of the psychedelic movement are greater levels of environmentalism and global stewardship” - Joe
• The psychedelic movement helps us see systems that are made up are a part of our tangible reality and our responsibility to take care of the people in the systems
  • We can use psychedelics and meditation, and integration from these experiences, to see how we can operate in these systems and help people find resources in these systems

• He teaches as Esalen Institute leading workshops
• One of his colleagues has reached over 200,000 people with their work since 2011
• His goal isn't to be the lead, but the support of leaders, especially women because he feels the need for a balance and the need for more female leaders
• Michael says he loves surrounding himself around ‘world-changers’ and loves doing anything to be around them and learn from them

• Michael says its surprisingly conscious state
• Its very community oriented
• There are 6-7 Buddhist Sanghas, groups of dedicated folks to their practice
• There is a lot of nature and nature is Dharma, it is the teacher

• It's very normal for humans to have psychic experiences
  • All of us have access to these states, we just have to tap into them
  • Michael encourages people to accept and cultivate these experiences
  • It may be better to accept these experiences than to deny them
• There is a difference between energetic flow and psychosis
  • Crazy Wise is a documentary that touches on spiritual emergence issues

• The Institute of Noetic Sciences had a program called The Future of Meditation Research
  • They found in the research that they were only looking at reducing anxiety and depression, the clinical applications
  • But they found that more than half of the people experienced psychic phenomenon, mystical experiences, terrifying experiences, the things that overlap/correlate with psychedelic experiences
  • Both meditative and psychedelic experiences point to ego dissolution and unity at the same time
• Ego and anxiety both have wisdom in them, we don't want to lose them completely, but learn how to balance them and use them wisely
• “We need to be mindful of how we integrate what we learn in the psychedelic/meditative state into our waking life” - Michael
• “How can meditation and psychedelics lend themselves to being the best version of ourselves while committing to others well being? That is what I am most passionate about.” - Michael
• David Trellen and Willoughby Britton - Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness
• “If we are choosing to be more compassionate to our fellow humans and the earth, let’s not tough it out, let's help each other.” - Joe
  • “Let’s do the work that it takes to heal it.” - Michael
• Be open, be curious. What might meditation be able to bring to personal awakening in order to create collective transformation?

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Michael Sapiro, PsyD, is a psychologist, meditation teacher, and former Buddhist monk. He lives and works on the frontier of spirituality, social justice, science, and psychology. He earned his Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from John F. Kennedy University and holds a Master’s in English Studies. He is a consultant with the Institute of Noetic Sciences and is on faculty at Esalen Institute. Michael is the founder of Maitri House Yoga and was trained for 20 years in both traditional Yoga philosophy and lifestyle, and Buddhist meditation. In his treatment he integrates Western psychological interventions with meditation and awareness practices. He finds the greatest healing comes from living a life of presence, vulnerability, and awareness. At Sage he will fully integrate Yoga philosophy and life-style within the treatment.

Download In this episode Joe interviews, Richie Ogulnick, a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast. During the show they discuss Ibogaine and Addiction-Interruption Therapy.

1. Ibogaine is a compound found in the Tabernanthe Iboga plant that has been used to treat opioid and other addictions.
2. Ibogaine has shown to have the power to reset the biochemistry of a person to a non-addictive state, and reduce/eliminate the agonizing symptoms of withdrawal, allowing a person to heal from an addiction.
3. The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse.

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• In 1989 he was Introduced to Ibogaine while visiting family and friends in New York
• Its an alkaloid extracted from a West African shrub
• He was ready to fall in love with doing something with purpose
• He came across an article about a corporation called NDA created by Howard Lotsof
  • When Howard (a heroine addict) was 19 years old, a chemist gave him a dose of Ibogaine
  • A few days later, he realized he “wasn't afraid” and then he realized he wasn't having opioid withdrawals
• In “Needle Park”, a park in New York, heroin addicts come there for free needles
  • Richie’s dream was to dose all the addicts with Ibogaine, and that only a quarter of them would show up to Needle Park because they were not addicted anymore
• He brought 13 grams of Ibogaine back from Africa with him
• He received a chapter from a book (Healing Journey) called Ibogaine: Fantasy and Reality by Claudio Naranjo
• People were coming from all over the world to receive Ibogaine treatments
• It was 15 years where he conducted over 750 psycho-spiritual and addiction-interception sessions underground
• Upon training people, those people would then go and open their own treatment centers in Mexico, abroad, etc.

• Tabernanthe Iboga is the plant
• Ibogaine Hydrochloride is the best product to use to interrupt addiction and symptoms of withdrawal from an addiction
• Ibogaine is safe as long as someone has had an EKG that has been looked at very closely for any red flags
• Other than cardiac risk and previous suicidality, schizophrenia, psychotic breaks there aren't many more threats to being treated with Ibogaine

• “There is a miracle compound in ibogaine. There is nothing I have come across on the planet that can reset the biochemistry to a pre-addictive state, that can bring a person to make a choice without the agony of the symptoms of withdrawal.” - Richie
• There is a 36 hour window where a person has a life review, what brought them to the addictive process in the first place, the person's willingness and maturity
  • It creates a symbiotic relationship for a person to explore themselves with insight
• Relapse is possible if they don't work on the reason they became addicted in the first place
• It's the witness component that Ibogaine delivers that helps people process through their addiction
• Ibogaine as a molecule has a really pharmacologically complex, alien like structure

• Justin Hoffman, a DJ in Las Vegas runs Holistic House, a facility where people get to relax and get out of their previous context for a week or two after treatment
• If a family wanted to help out their family member who is addicted to heroine, Richie says that he asks the family about relocation because it's a big part of reducing relapse
• He also says that finding a proper therapist to help afterward is huge too
• The combination of Ibogaine, relocation and integration therapy is the best scenario for healing someone and preventing them from relapse

• Joe says how he got a message from Dana Biel, talking about how the harm reduction movement has been manipulated by the ‘Big Pharma’ industry, especially suboxone
  • Richie says that drugs like suboxone are prescribed to be used everyday for the rest of someone's life, and Ibogaine is a “one-time-only” style drug that doesn't require alot of money to heal people
  • Ibogaine is not profitable so its not attractive to Big Pharma
  • “Ibogaine will never hit the streets like LSD did. It's not a recreational experience, it's a long, daunting 3 stage process.” - Richie

• He knows of a story where these two ladies took Ibogaine daily for their Parkinson's, and as soon as they stopped taking Ibogaine, they got their symptoms back
• He knows of another lady who had been walking with a cane and upon taking Ibogaine she was walking a mile around her neighborhood without her cane

• Joe asks if Richie thinks we are over harvesting Iboga
  • There is the Wakanga tree that contains a small amount of Ibogaine, so he thinks we are okay
• Ibogaine is an important subject because a lot of people are dying from opiates
• Ibogaine is available in Portugal but it hasn't had much activity
• It can be used for therapeutic use as well as addiction-interruption

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Richie Ogulnick is a long time Ibogaine provider and enthusiast Over the course of fifteen and a half years, he conducted about 750 sessions, including addiction-interruption treatments. He spent the next several years referring close to 1,000 more people to other ibogaine providers. During that time, he also trained doctors and ex-addicts who opened ibogaine centers throughout the world. Richie feels a pull to focus again on the more therapeutic and psycho-spiritual treatments where he is able to offer his expertise in ibogaine treatment along with his knowledge of reintegration with individuals who are looking to deepen and enrich their life experience.

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In this Episode, Joe interviews Brad Burge, Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS. In this episode they discuss the Phase 3 Trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy, contradictions and Expanded Access.

1. MAPS is about to run Phase 3 Trials of MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
2. If MDMA passes this third phase, it will still be tricky to get insurance involved. But the cost of one series of MDMA Therapy is much cheaper than a lifetime of typical pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD.
3. The only reason for-profit companies haven't gotten involved before was because there wasn't a promise on their investment. Finally, for-profit companies (like Compass Pathways) are interested in advancing these medicines (Psilocybin and MDMA).

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• Brad Burge is the Director of Strategic Communications at MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
• MAPS started out as just a few employees in 2009 and has grown to over 40 now

• They are now in Phase 3 Trials
• They started recruiting at 14 sites (US, Canada and Israel) and are recruiting 150 volunteers with severe PTSD
• Participation

• Breakthrough Therapy Designation
  • The FDA categorized MDMA as a breakthrough drug for PTSD
• After phase 3 trials, if all goes well, it would mean that MDMA would be the drug to be used (only) alongside Psychotherapy
• MAPS is training therapists, counselors and social workers
  • One way to get more people educated who are interested in this would be taking therapy interns in and having them gain credits for interning and learning alongside trained therapists

• Expanded Access is known as ‘compassionate use’, a program by the FDA that allows people to receive a treatment that is still in trials
• In order to administer the therapy you are required to get a DEA schedule 1 license
• “If there’s one thing that changes public perspective on psychedelic therapy, its individual stories of people who have been healed, transformed by or positively or even negatively affected by them in some way” - Brad
• They have published many studies of the trials
  • The most recent was the Boulder study, 76% of people didn't have PTSD a year after MDMA assisted therapy
• Insurance won't cover expanded access, it will have to pass Phase 3 trials until insurance can be used in MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy
• The MDMA is a very small cost (fraction) of the total cost, it’s the hours on hours of psychotherapy that cost so much
• But the cost of one MDMA Therapy Session process is much cheaper than a lifetime of pharmaceutical drugs and therapy sessions to heal PTSD

• Joe says he hears this strange argument that people say “giving soldiers MDMA just makes war easier”
  • Brad says it's not about putting these people back into war, it's about healing the retired veterans to help them adapt back into their everyday life
  • “MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy is going to make them a better lover not a better fighter” - Brad
  • “If there's one commonality in psychedelic experiences, its that things are connected.” - Brad

• Joe mentions that people are scared to see a business come in that's acting like a normal pharmaceutical company
• MAPS is not tied at all with Compass Pathways
• Out of the top two things Americans are mad about, at least one of them is the Pharmaceutical Industry
• Finally, for-profit companies are interested in advancing these medicines (MDMA)
  • The only reason for-profit companies haven't gotten involved before was because there wasn't a promise on their investment
  • Capitalism has a tendency to put profit first
  • “Money can be used for good as well as evil” - Brad
• MAPS has raised over 70 billion dollars all from donations
• Compass owns its own safety data
• Part of the goal of a patent is to protect the investment

• MAPS Psychedelic Harm Reduction and Peer Support resource
  • Tim Ferriss has volunteered for Zendo
  • They are always looking for new volunteers
  • They offer trainings on site at the events
  • They will be hosting a harm reduction webinar right before festival season

• The Department of Justice announced that providing free water and harm reduction education are not violations of the rave act
• Amend the Rave Act

• The pharmaceutical grade MDMA costs 800,000 for one kilogram
• It won't be available in bottles, it will be available in bubble packs
  • More than one is never needed

• 2021 or 2022 is the next Psychedelic Science Conference
• Joe is starting a Psychedelic Club in Breckenridge, CO

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Brad Burge is Director of Strategic Communications at the non-profit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Brad earned his B.A. in Communication and Psychology from Stanford University in 2005 and his M.A. in Communication from the University of California, San Diego in 2009. He began working with MAPS in 2009, where he engages daily with journalists and media producers around the world to enhance public knowledge about psychedelic research, while also helping develop and evolve MAPS' brand and outreach strategy. Brad is passionate about finding healthier, more effective, and more compassionate ways for humans to work with the pharmaceutical and digital communications technologies of the 21st century. When he’s not plugged in, you’ll find him in the mountains, carrying a backpack, somewhere down a long trail.

Download In this episode, hosts Joe and Kyle sit down and engage in conversation together, covering topics such as Kyle’s capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork, current events, upcoming plans and the hurdles as a Psychedelic education and information company in a space of both ethical and unethical findings.

1. Kyle will be soon finishing his capstone project, Trauma and Breath: A Clinical Approach to Trauma Resolution Utilizing Breathwork.
2. The project is on the clinical application of Breathwork Therapy. The goal will be to use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that can be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy.
3. Joe and Kyle find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world. They are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense. It’s a difficult time, where a lot of unethical stuff is happening around psychedelics, and Joe and Kyle feel responsible for the safety of the community.

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• Kyle’s been doing an internship a few days a week and has been doing undergraduate student counselling
• He’s been working on his capstone project that has consumed a ton of his time and energy
  • He wants to thank Elizabeth Gibson and Alan Davis who have been reviewing his capstone project for him

• Writing the capstone in the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program means it needed to have clinical applications
• Kyle went to the MDMA Training in 2016, and he talked to Michael Mithoefer, who told him that if he wants to get involved, to figure out something that can be an adjunct to psychedelic therapy
  • Kyle thought that he could use an Integrative Breathwork Therapy model that could then be used adjunct to Psychedelic Therapy

• A deep, slow belly breath can be very activating to the parasympathetic nervous system that calms the body down
• A fast, intense breath can be more active and can bring out traumas

• Phase 1: Grounding and Emotional Regulation (slow, deep breath, the therapeutic alliance)
  • They screen for people that have had a traumatic experience, spiritual emergence or psychosis in the last 6 months so they know where to start with a patient
  • They use a capscore (a test that looks at the severity of someone’s PTSD) to determine where to start in therapy
  • Joe mentions that it would be beneficial to see what level of capscore a patient responds positively or negatively to a Breathwork session
• Phase 2: Using Breathwork in a somatic processing phase
  • Stage 1: Somatic experiencing (helping people breathe into the sensations in the body)
    • The body has a ‘secret language’, of how our body holds onto trauma
    • Turning inward and being more in touch with inner sensations (tightness, heat, etc)
  • Stage 2: A more activating of “blockages” by intensifying or speeding up the breath
• Phase 3: Outside of the clinical scope, placing someone in a full group, 3 hour Breathwork that might bring up collective traumas or spiritual experiences
  • The goal would be to get people through therapy to get them to the larger group process, create community and form social connections
  • It needs to start with the clinical space, one-on-one to generate trust. Once they have that trust and confidence, they can go out and explore the more transpersonal and spiritual aspect of themselves

• We have modems, cable, fiber optics, 3g, 4g, 5g cell networks, etc.
• Video communication, phone conversation is great, but it's 2D
• When its in person, depth of field kicks in, you're able to see body language and intonation
• Living in a tribe of 150 people and creating community, we'd be using our full bandwidth, bringing the human organism back to its full capacity
• "Therapists get taught clinical practices, but they aren't taught about theory and practice of trauma” - Joe

• MAPS just published an article about an online Breathwork workshop
  • Joe says its not a bad thing, but there are risks by not having an in person facilitator
• “We find out about a lot of things that are potentially harmful in the psychedelic world, our relationship to coming out about that stuff is tricky. Yes, we are “journalists”, but without money for legal defense.” - Joe
  • Joe says he feels responsibility for safety in the community
  • Kyle says the psychedelic community sometimes feels like the wild west due to the lack of education. “When unethical stuff arises, what is our responsibility?” - Kyle
  • “We are trying to understand our future, and not put ourselves in a bad place, all while keeping you all safe and continuing to serve the community” - Joe
• How LSD alters our consciousness

Trip Journal Integration Workbook Both books will be on Amazon for purchase in the next few weeks

• Arizona Psychedelic Conference
  • Joe and Kyle will be guiding 2 Breathwork workshops
  • They are excited to connect and meet people
• Kyle and Joe will be going to another conference in March
  • The title of the conference is “Can Exceptional Experiences Save Humans, from Ecological Crisis”
  • “If were going to survive on earth, we've got to be a little more global. We are all linked to this spaceship that we are traveling through space on, and there are limited resources on this thing. We are answering a lot of these questions through psychedelics” - Joe

Kyle’s interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle’s life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, “Stanislav Grof’s Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences,” and the other one which he co-created, “The History of Psychedelics.”

Kyle is currently pursuing his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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In this episode, Kyle and Joe host Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown, Authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art. The book showcases the work and inspiration of female artists such as Josephine Wall, Allison Grey, Amanda Sage, Martina Hoffman, Carolyn Mary Kleefeld and many others.

1. Rebecca Ann Hill and David Jay Brown are co-authors of the book, Women of Visionary Art, which includes discussions with 18 female artists.
2. The book and the episode are an exploration of the role that dreaming, psychedelic experiences, and mystical visions play in visionary art.
3. There is a strong need for a balancing of masculine and feminine energies. Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it's exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed.

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• David’s background is in Psychobiology, the interface between psychology and biology
• He spent 10-15 years working in neuroscience and research labs
  • His interest in Neuroscience came from his experience as a teenager, experimenting with psychedelics
• He wrote his first book, The Science of Psychedelics, about 10 years ago
• David mentions that the psychedelic renaissance has allowed him to write openly about psychedelic topics that he’s been preparing his whole life researching for

• aka Molly Moon Sparkles
• She has a huge creative drive
• She is currently studying psychology and is playing in the art program
• She is fascinated by entheogens, plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
• She is a painter and is working on the Molly Moon Magick Series that focuses on the divine feminine
• She wrote and illustrated the book Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams and Mystic Visions

• There is strong evidence that psychedelics improve creativity Music, art, technology, so many great things are influenced by psychedelics

• David was so fascinated with the visions he would see on psychedelics and wished that he had the talent to portray it through artwork, and then he began to see artists bring these visions to life
• He also saw a lot of gender inequality, that there were more men than women in the visionary art space
  • It urged him to highlight the under recognized women in visionary art
• Rebecca was experimenting with other realms with plant medicines and psychedelic compounds
  • She says her consciousness was so drastically different from any other time in her life, and she started painting her psychedelic experiences
  • This led her to begin building community with other artists who shared the same ‘vision’ as her
  • She said that the psychedelic experience has so much feminine nature to it that wasn't being voiced
  • “We are going through a serious ecological crisis right now and the teachings behind the psychedelic experience is to heal the collective and help climate change” - Rebecca
• Stanley Krippner conducted a survey of artists and psychedelics

• There is an uprising of feminism with the “Me Too” movement, women in congress, women’s marches
• Our species has been so dominated by men and we need the nurturing and caring aspects of the feminine perspective

• The most surprising aspect is how much in common the women had
• David says it was beautiful how well each artist was connected to each other through their stories
• Laura Holden is completely self taught
• There were two women from the book that had never touched a psychedelic substance
  • They were inspired through dreams and daydreams
• The psychedelic experience not only inspires the artwork, but it creates a new way of viewing artwork
• Kyle mentions that he always wished he could record his dreams
  • Joe says he has been seeing research around capturing visual or imagined imagery

• David discovered most of the artists that he had not previously known through the community Rebecca had been a part of as visionary artists

• August 3rd, Rebecca and David are giving a presentation as COSM in New York
• Entheon, the Sanctuary for Visual art may be open by them
  • Entheon will have workshops, painting classes, rooms to stay in, full moon ceremonies, etc.
  • It will be an art sanctuary, a church with a spiritual and psychedelic essence
• Visionary art is getting into museums and becoming a recognized art form

• Terrence McKenna told David that early on in human civilization, men didn't understand the role that sex had in creating babies
  • The power of reproduction was within women and sex was something else
  • Once men began thinking that they were responsible for the generation of life, they starting saying its “my baby” its “my wife” instead of ‘our’ baby or the community’s baby. It kept developing into “my child” into “my country”, “MY”.
  • Then people started using less psychedelics and started consuming more alcohol and now everything is an over exaggerated male dominance
  • “Females tend to be more nurturing and more cooperative, and it's exactly the factors that are missing in our current world and are causing problems of greed. It could be balanced and harmonized with more feminine energy.” - David
• There is a crucial imbalance from male and female in history alone
  • But more than an imbalance between just males and females, it's about an imbalance of masculine and feminine energies
  • Each of us, male and females have both a masculine and feminine energy
  • We can see the masculine and feminine imbalance in the world and our planet right now. We don't need to shift to a goddess worshiping planet, but we just need to be back in balance and bring more feminine energy of nurturing and compassion and caring and healing
• Penny (an artist highlighted in the book) mentions about Sandos giving LSD to researchers who gave it to artists

• “If you want to get involved in painting, dancing, making jewelry, clothing, gardening, don't wait. Do it. If you are true to yourself and your own inner visions, you will succeed” - Rebecca
• One thing all artists have in common is fear and insecurity, so you can't let it hinder you from beginning

• Artists like Android Jones are doing visionary artwork in virtual reality mediums
• David thinks visionary artwork will become only even more interactive and immersive spaces
• We need to find a more yin-yang balance between masculine and feminine

Women of Visionary Art (Amazon) Women of Visionary Art (Inner Traditions) David’s Site Rebecca’s Site MollyMoonSparkle blog

Rebecca Ann Hill (AKA Molly Moon Sparkle), is a visual artist with a wide range of experience in different creative mediums. She is the co-author and illustrator of “Ecstatic Love, Lost Dreams & Mystic Visions”, as well as “Women of Visionary Art.” Primarily a painter, she is creating a new series entitled “Molly Moon Magick,” and her other projects include dancing with “Gold Town Burlesque,” writing a blog -“Go Ask Molly”- and working on a new book about her spiritual awakening.

David Jay Brown is the author of Dreaming Wide Awake: Lucid Dreaming, Shamanic Healing and Psychedelics, and The New Science of Psychedelics: At the Nexus of Culture, Consciousness, and Spirituality. He is also the coauthor of five other bestselling volumes of interviews with leading-edge thinkers, Mavericks of the Mind, Voices from the Edge, Conversations on the Edge of the Apocalypse, Mavericks of Medicine, Frontiers of Psychedelic Consciousness, and of Women of Visionary Art. Additionally, Brown is the author of two science fiction novels,Brainchild and Virus, and he is the coauthor of the health science book Detox with Oral Chelation. Brown holds a master’s degree in psychobiology from New York University, and was responsible for the California-based research in two of British biologist Rupert Sheldrake’s books on unexplained phenomena in science: Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home and The Sense of Being Stared At. His work has appeared in numerous magazines, including Wired, Discover, and Scientific American, and he was the Senior Editor of the special edition, themed MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) Bulletins from 2007 to 2012. In 2011, 2012, and 2013 Brown was voted “Best Writer” in the annual Good Times and Santa Cruz Weekly’s “Best of Santa Cruz” polls, and his news stories have been picked up by The Huffington Post and CBS News.

Download In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe interview Balázs Szigeti, PhD and David Erritzoe, PhD to discuss the self-blinded microdosing study in collaboration with the Imperial College London. In this episode, they explore the self-blinding study and it’s pros and limitations, with the aim to collect data on microdosing and its possible benefits.

1. Microdosing (LSD) has the least amount of research so far among research on drugs like Psilocybin, MDMA and Ketamine.
2. This microdosing study includes a procedure on how self experimenters can implement placebo control. This will help determine whether microdosers feel benefits due to the placebo effect or because of the pharmacological action of the microdose.
3. Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way a user feels while taking it) it may actually have benefits that one cannot necessarily ‘feel’ (users may become more creative, have better problem solving skills, etc).

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• Balazs attended his undergrad in the UK at Imperial College and studied Theoretical Physics
• He moved to Scotland to get his PhD in Computational Neuroscience
• He became interested in psychedelics via the Global Drug Survey
• He was doing MDMA research and then the microdosing project came to him

• He is a medical doctor and works in clinical psychology doing research
• He does brain imaging and his background has been in addiction, depression and schizophrenia
• He did his postdoc at Imperial and worked with Robert Carhart Harris
• He worked in a clinical trial working with people of treatment resistant depression
• He is currently working on an online survey for microdosing

• MDMA for PTSD is the most advanced in terms of available scientific evidence for psychedelic medicine
• There is already a big gap in psilocybin vs MDMA for treatment
• There isn't much research on microdosing yet
  • In order to do research on microdosing, you'd have to bring in a ‘patient’ and have them in the lab for many hours at a time, very frequently, and it's not practical

• In this microdosing study, they are testing cognitive function
  • The user will have to fill out a questionnaire throughout the duration of the microdose
• There were a lot of things, very political for the downfall of psychedelic science
• When the double-blind method was introduced for science, it used methods that would have compromised the ‘setting’ of taking psychedelics
• There is a manual that the users have to follow for the setup process
  • Its a semi-randomized process where they take the microdose over 4 weeks and it may be either the psychedelic or a placebo
  • It works on a method of a dose hidden in a capsule assigned to a QR code, where the user doesn't know what they take until the end of the study
• This is a study inviting people that plan to microdose a blotter based psychedelic
  • Its a hands-off study of observation, based on a users own plan on taking the substance

• Its half-way between a clinical study and an observational study
• They aren't sending the users the LSD, they are just providing the platform for the users to share their experience on
• In this trial, the flaw is that the research team doesn't know the dose size of the blotter the user takes, it could start as a 100mg, more, less. Its a variable that cannot be controlled
  • The fix would be to have the LSD sent to the lab, tested for dose size, and then sent back to the user (anonymously), but since it's illegal it cannot be done
  • It's also hard to determine even distribution of a blotter into microdose size
  • They don't know if the user is cutting the blotter paper like a pie or in squares
• Also, because the drug is being bought on the black market, they wont know if there are adulterants in the drug unless the user tests the drug themselves
  • David and Balázs also say that based on current findings, most LSD tested is pure LSD, where a drug like MDMA is more common to contain an adulterant
• They do have plans to extend the study to include plant based psychedelics and volumetric dosing

• Psychedelic microdosing is not the same as Pharmacological microdosing
• A microdose in pharmacological context is 1/100th of a dose, where a psychedelic microdose is more like 1/10th of a dose

• People like David Nichols and Ben Sessa think microdosing is pointless
  • It could be that microdosing is a glorified placebo effect
• Most people who are microdosing have had previous experience with psychedelics
  • People are doing it because they believe there is a benefit that comes from it
• The placebo control is the most important component of this self-blinded method
• People say that microdosing stimulates their creativity, but creativity is hard to measure
• One thing they could measure is personality through a personality assessment
  • One thing that has been studied is an increase in the ‘Openness’ personality trait after psychedelic use
  • The flaw is that a personality test is a person answering questions about themselves

• The benefit of this study, is it doesn't take people out of their natural, personal setting
• Based on the feedback already received, the users are getting their guess right only half of the time, on whether it is the microdose or the placebo
• Just because microdosing may have a placebo effect (the way they feel while taking it) it may actually have benefits (users may be more creative, have better problem solving skills, etc).
• Homeopathy is widely believed to be a placebo effect in the scientific community, but the homeopathy is continuing to grow

Self-blinding Microdose Study

Dr. Balazs Szigeti has studied theoretical physics at Imperial College, but turned towards neuroscience for his PhD studies at the University of Edinburgh. His main work is about the behavioural neuroscience of invertebrates, but he has a diverse scientific portfolio that includes computational neuroscience and driving forward the OpenWorm open science initiative. Balazs is also the editor of the Dose of Science blog that is published in collaboration with the Drugreporter website. Dose of Science discusses and critically assesses scientific studies about recreational drugs. Recently Balazs has started a collaboration with the Global Drug Survey to quantitatively compare the dose of recreational users of various drugs with the scientific literature.

Dr. David Erritzoe is qualified as a medical doctor from Copenhagen University Medical School and currently holds an Academic Clinical Lectureship in Psychiatry at Imperial College London. Alongside his clinical training in medicine/psychiatry, David has been involved in psychopharmacological research, using brain-imaging techniques such as PET and MRI. He has conducted post-doc imaging research in the neurobiology of addictions and major depression. Together with Prof Nutt and Dr Carhart-Harris he is also investigating the neurobiology and therapeutic potential of MDMA and classic psychedelics.

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In this episode, Joe interviews Nathan Sepeda, a Research Coordinator at Johns Hopkins. Joe and Nathan cover topics on 5-MEO-DMT research and survey studies, the difference between synthetic and toad sourced 5-MEO-DMT, the sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius toad, and the benefits of a proper facilitator.

1. 5-MEO-DMT is starting to gain traction in the research world. The conversation continues on whether the synthetic 5-MEO-DMT experience is any different from a 5-MEO-DMT experience sourced from the toad venom.
2. As the popularity of 5-MEO-DMT increases, concerns about the wellbeing and sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius toad also increases.
3. Proper facilitation has been shown to affect a person’s experience on a substance like 5-MEO-DMT. The use of a practitioner, finding the substance from a reputable source, and integration all play a critical role in the user's experience.

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• Joe found out about Nathan Sepeda and the work being done on 5-MEO-DMT after Johns Hopkins released a poster on 5-MEO-DMT
• Alan Davis put together a survey about people’s 5-MEO-DMT experiences
• Half of the use was recreational, and then the other half of survey participants used more of a therapeutic approach set and setting including a sitter and integration
  • The study found that the more structured the 5-MEO-DMT experience was around set and setting, the more often participants reported a more mystical experience as well as a lower likelihood of having a difficult experience
  • The survey only looked at synthetic 5-MEO-DMT
  • Using 5-MEO-DMT from a toad also runs the risk of the other toad venom constituents
• Joe said the first time he heard about data on 5-MEO-DMT was at the Oakland Psychedelic Science Conference in 2017
  • Stan Grof had a keynote saying that 5-MEO-DMT was the future of psychiatry

• The Bufo Alvarius toad’s population is increasingly declining
  • Joe says he knows someone who lives on the Mexican border in the Sonoran desert, and he would have toads jump into his house all the time
  • He doesn't even see them anymore
  • Joe also mentions the toads flocking to the UV street lights, and people scooping them up or even running them over
  • “How do we do less harm to living things and treat our environment better?” - Joe

• Nathan is the Research Coordinator of Psychedelic Studies at Johns Hopkins
• He works as an Assistant Facilitator (sitter) for the psychoactive drug sessions
• He is involved in Psilocybin studies (currently the depression study)
• He says he is grateful to be a part of the research, seeing people change in a matter of days from the help of the substances
• Nathan has a background in Psychology and Neuroscience
• Mary Cosimano is the primary facilitator for all of the studies at Johns Hopkins
  • His training consisted of mock sessions, ways to ask/answer questions, and overall hold the space
• A lot of people will describe their experience being the most spiritual experience of their life
• Joe asks about upset stomach with synthetic 5-MEO-DMT
  • Nathan responds saying they ask patients to eat a light breakfast, but he never really sees upset stomach with synthetic 5-MEO

• The use of a practitioner and finding the substance from a reputable source are the two biggest factors in having a great experience, along with integration
  • Nathan says that these findings are preliminary but they are a great start to data on the substance and its use
• Joe says he is cautious about the religious affiliation people prescribe to their experience with these substances
  • It can get out of hand, there are “shamans” that taze people or throw buckets of cold water on their patients when they are on the substance
  • Waterboarding, sexual assault, all of these things speak to the value of screening practitioners
• Joe has heard about a facilitator using an extremely high amount of 5-MEO-DMT on his patients, far above the effective dose
• Joe mentions a story about a “shaman” who was to facilitate a session. The participant thought they were going to do standard DMT, and the shaman gave them 5-MEO-DMT instead (without the users consent)
  • Joe suggests that just because you know a reputable source for a substance, doesn't mean they are a good facilitator

• People can find information on the study at clinicaltrials.gov
• People can apply by contacting Nathan’s team directly
  • They will have room for healthy volunteers in healthy volunteer studies in the future
  • They are currently working on “insight surveys” that are surveys asking people about their psychedelic experiences

Hopkins Psychedelic Research Website

Nathan Sepeda is an assistant facilitator (or guide) for psychoactive drug sessions and research coordinator for the Johns Hopkins Psychedelic Research Unit. Nathan earned an undergraduate degree from the University of Minnesota studying psychology and neuroscience. His interests in addiction and mood disorders, in combination with the promising research with psychedelics, have led Nathan to Dr. Roland Griffiths’ lab. Nathan is involved in a number of projects investigating the effects of various psychedelic substances, including psilocybin, salvinorin-A, and 5-MeO-DMT.

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In this episode, Kyle interviews Dr. Jenifer Talley, Clinical Psychologist and Assistant Director at the Center for Optimal Living that does harm reduction in psychotherapy. Topics include the current stigma of substance use and the benefits of using a harm reduction approach.

1. Dr. Jenifer Talley is a Clinical Psychologist at the Center for Optimal Living who practices harm reduction with her psychotherapy clients.
2. Substance abuse is typically a symptom of a bigger issue. Jenifer uses a model called the 7 Therapeutic Tasks that helps build a safe relationship with her clients in adjusting their substance abuse mindset.
3. There is a stigma on substance use, and shifting away from the current model into a harm reduction framework could help users be more receptive to change and healing.

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• Jenifer grew up outside of DC and moved up to New York area for her internship and was working with female survivors of trauma and substance use at St. Luke's Hospital.
• Dr. Tatarsky has founded the Center for Optimal Living and she is the Assistant Director
• The Center for Optimal Living is known best for their work with substance use and harm reduction

• Jenifer says that 'abstinence only' or 'abstinence first' approach doesn't really work
  • It's all about determining the relationship the patients want to have with a substance
• People really struggle with vulnerability and trauma is a player as to why someone wants to use a substance
  • “Substance use is a symptom of a bigger issue” - Jenifer
• It's unfair to ask someone to change without asking the whole system to change

• The Therapeutic Alliance - Letting the client know they can trust them
• The Therapeutic Relationship Heals - Jenifer says they are sensitive about creating a safe therapeutic relationship with clients
• Enhancing Self Management Skills - How to better help with coping skills, shifting how people relate to cravings
  • “What’s driving my urge to go for a drink right now?”
  • Loneliness, boredom and sadness are reasons for craving
• Assessment as Treatment - What was the craving, how did they respond to that craving, how did they give into the craving, how did they feel afterward
  • When Friday night rolls around, can the client picture the guilt and shame of Monday morning in that moment?
• Embracing Ambivalence - The client might have different parts of themselves, one part of them may want to really work on healing and change, and the other part of them might never want to change
• Goal Setting - helping clients think through bigger lifestyle changes they want to make, such as diet, self care activities, and specific substance use related goals
• Personalized Plan for Change - asking people to really evaluate their use

• How do we not be judgmental about someone's substance use, and care about their safety?
• Jenifer says she feels very protective about people she works with, and is very sensitive to her clients because of the shame about their drug use

• Jenifer asks herself “does this person need medical attention right now?”
• She had a client that came in intoxicated but they were able to have a conversation still
  • But she didn't let him go home because the fact that he drank
  • She gave him food and water and waited until he was able to get home safely
  • She thought about it from a compassionate approach and thought “what is that telling us about his use?” and the next time the client came in they said their drinking was hardly manageable

• There is a gap in training as clinicians as providers
• In the US specifically, the 12 step process and abstinence are used which are a part of the disease model
• There is a lot of stigma and shame in calling someone an addict
• The fear about the harm reduction model is that it is thought to lead to decriminalization
• The other issue is that the harm reduction model is thought to not include abstinence
  • Jenifer says it does include abstinence, she just doesn't lead with the abstinence approach
• Kyle mentions that a common thought for clinicians is “How do I incorporate a hard reduction approach without condoning drug use?”
  • Jenifer says the drug use is happening already
  • The first step is noticing your own biases first, and then getting informed about the model
  • Andrew Tatarsky’s Book
  • Patt Denning and Jeannie Little - Over the Influence

• Help clients build a life that they are happy with
• 3 day training coming up
  • The training goes into the history and why there needs to be a paradigm shift in looking at addiction
  • The second and third days really go into the 7 Therapeutic Tasks
• Because there is more funding, they are going to train the region of Florida to train the staff at the Department of Health
• The idea of harm reduction might be less appealing to parents, so they really focus on educating parents and teens on harm reduction versus strict abstinence
  • Safety First 
  • Robert Meyers
• Kyle mentions a statistic he read saying that the older generation’s vice is alcohol, and that young adults are using opioids and pills
• Psychedelic Education and Continuing Care Program is psychedelic harm reduction

• A harm reduction approach is necessary to teach people how to test, it could possibly save lives
• Families for Sensible Drug Policy
• We need to re-humanize treatment for users

JeniferTalley

Center for Optimal Living

Check out our online course, "Introduction to Psychedelics"

As the Assistant Director of The Center for Optimal Living, Jenifer coordinates clinical services and training activities along with providing individual psychotherapy.Together with Dr. Andrew Tatarsky, she started the first-ever Harm Reduction Psychotherapy Certificate Program. In her clinical work at The Center for Optimal Living, she provides individual psychotherapy using an integrative harm reduction framework where the focus is on developing a collaborative and compassionate relationship with my clients to promote positive change.

Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down with Renn Butler, who graduated from the second ever class of Holotropic Breathwork in 1989. During the show, they discuss topics on Breathwork, Stan Grof practices, archetypal astrology and the astrological landscape we are entering in 2019.

1. Renn Butler is an Archetypal and Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s who uses astrology in his Breathwork practice.
2. Stan Grof’s Internalized Protocol includes lying down with eye shades and headphones with a sober sitter. A sober sitter is more common in therapeutic settings versus the shamanistic group settings, and Renn believes there is more benefit to a sober sitter in a personal session than a group session.
3. We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019. Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the universal field of consciousness and Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches, so we are entering into a time of opportunity for self exploration and awakening.

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• Renn became interested in Stan Grof’s work through many conversations with Richard Tarnas in 1980, and then participated in a Grof month long session with guests like Gwen Frishkoff
  • He spent much time in Esalon
  • He remembers walking through the hallways where the mandalas from breathwork sessions were hung
• He has been an Archetypal/Holotropic Astrologer since the 70’s

• Stan Grof looked at ways to determine the content of people’s experiences in assisted psychotherapy
  • Through his friendship with Richard Tarnas, he found that people’s planetary alignments or ‘transits’ corresponded in a remarkable way with their experience in a session
• “The purpose of astrology is to predict the meaning behind events rather than trying to determine the specific concrete forms they take.” - Renn
  • Carl Jung coined the term archetype based on the Greek word “arche”, which means ‘the forms’
  • It's the psychological meaning behind events
• Richard learned astrology by looking at his sessions and the content of the sessions and their correlation with astrological transits
  • Based on his findings, he was able to predict the best days to do sessions

• Renn had Kundalini Experiences happening for 4 years
• Transiting Pluto was conjoining his natal Neptune
  • Pluto compels into being whatever archetypes it aligns with
  • Neptune represents divine consciousness
• He did a 5 hour breathwork session that caused him to re-live aspects of toxic womb (disturbances of intrauterine life)
  • Pluto can help clear out disturbances of the psyche
• At the end of the session, he felt way more cleared out than he did before It resolved his Kundalini episode that he was in for the last few years

• Some describe it as energy moving up the spine or chakra
  • It means to clear out leftover traumatic baggage in the psyche
• People can have emotional outbursts and start crying or screaming as they discharge the energy
  • Afterward, they will care what happens to the ecosystem and around them and want to be a part of the solution

• Joe asks when to tell the difference between knowing if someone is going through a Spiritual Emergence or needs hospitalization
• Renn responds saying you need to look for if the person is taking responsibility for their healing versus projecting.
  • Projecting would be someone saying “You guys are trying to poison me” versus taking responsibility and saying “I’m feeling toxic feelings inside myself”
  • Free Webinar on Spiritual Emergence and Psychosis 
• Renn mentions a woman who did 90 LSD sessions with Stan Grof
• “The greatest therapeutic outcomes exist with intelligent well established individuals whose lives become boring and rigid in routine” - Stan Grof

• The Astrological Alignments for the next few years are supercharged
  • Uranus square Pluto - a powerful set of archetypes
  • The last time this happened was the end of the 60’s
  • Richard Tarnas calls it the ‘sunset effect’, colors will saturate the sky in the archetypal realm
• Many people are going to have dramatic healing breakthroughs and openings until 2020
• For those who are a bit skeptical about astrology, Renn suggest reading newer texts;
  • Cosmos and Psyche
  • Prometheus the Awakener
  • Making the Gods Work for You
  • Horoscope Symbols
  • Planets in Transit

• Richard’s correlation of the outer planets Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto with Grof’s 4 perinatal matrices shows the process of revolutionizing astrology
• Carl Jung would do chart work before seeing all of his patients
  • He would try to find transits with Jupiter, Uranus, Venus, etc
• There are no astrological alignments that would be too dangerous to do journey-work during
  • But Renn says it's like putting up the lightning rod during certain transits during breathwork
• “Lie back and let the mother give birth to you” - Renn
  • Renn says it's safer if you are on your back during journey work versus walking around and facing gravity and falling or hurting yourself

• One patient at a time (sitter, breather team) to lie down, wear eye shades, and listen to music through headphones
  • The sitter agrees not to judge or direct the process or abandon the process
• You can expect miracles with this type of protocol
• You can't face this material by yourself, you really need people you trust, who are sober and not doing a substance, one person at a time
  • Renn says the ayahuasca revolution has brought a lot of greatness to the western world, but the shamanic traditions usually meant that the shaman drinks with the clients to have a magical insight into the users psyche

• In a therapeutic framework, the sitter is sober and lets the client do all of the work, and the sitter is there to assist, but not to interfere with the process
• Stan describes it as a way to maximize the benefits and minimize the risks
• Renn brings up an example of 3 people doing mushrooms together
  • One person might be feeling aggressive, and another person might feel like a baby wanting to be held
  • The aggressive person won't want to be doing any cuddling
  • One person does the catalyst, and the other 2 support them, and then the next time they rotate
• Renn thinks one deep session is more beneficial than 3 ‘half-assed’ sessions

• Some people have a fear that their experience may interrupt another person's experience
  • Renn says that if someone is laughing or screaming or crying that he understands it is just a part of the universe of the way things just are
• He is shocked to hear stories about people having a loud experience getting taken out away from the rest of the group and told to contain themselves
• Kyle mentions that sounds usually aren't a bother, and the loud music helps
  • But it's talking, English words that bring people out of a session
• People can have great ayahuasca ceremonies, and then they think that ayahuasca is the best psychedelic out there
  • Renn says that all psychedelics are great tools
  • But he encourages people to try breathwork and this solo session style healing
• Joe says he dreams of a place where shamanism takes a look at the solo process and maybe not always the group process, that all cultures can combine our knowledge for the best result

• • We are moving into a Jupiter square Neptune for all of 2019, 90 degrees between Jupiter and Neptune
    • Neptune represents our soul’s yearning to reawaken to the larger world’s soul, to the universal field of consciousness
    • Jupiter amplifies whatever it touches
    • This presents a large opportunity for self exploration, with a feeling of deeper cosmic safety
  • “It seems like our psyche’s wait until things are safe for the deepest material to surface.” - Renn
  • Renn says it's good to focus on death so that we can constantly keep our priorities straight

• A Week of Holotropic Breathwork, Dreamwork, Archetypal Astrology, and Visits to Mayan Ruins in Tulum, Mexico
• Archetypal Astrology Consultations
• Renn's Books
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Following a B.A. in English and Religious Studies from the University of Alberta, Renn Butler lived at the Esalen Institute in California for 2½ years where he became deeply immersed in the transpersonal psychology of Stanislav Grof and the emerging archetypal astrology of Richard Tarnas. He completed training as a Holotropic Breathwork facilitator with Stan and Christina Grof in 1989 and has facilitated many workshops in Victoria, Canada. His research includes over three decades of archetypal-astrology consultations and Holotropic Breathwork workshops, and thirty-five years of Jungian-Grofian dreamwork.

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In this unique episode, Joe brings Tom Hatsis and Dr. Jerry Brown together for a psychedelic debate. They go back in forth in conversation on whether there was psychedelic use in medieval or ancient Christianity and if so, was there a secret tradition of including art of mushrooms or psychedelic substances in cathedrals and castles.

1. Jerry Brown makes the claim that there is evidence of visionary plants in Christianity and the life of Jesus found in medieval art and biblical scripture.
2. Tom Hatsis makes the claim that Christianity is not hiding a giant secret inside the biblical texts about the true hallucinogen at the root of the religion being an Amanita Muscaria.
3. Jerry and Tom debate back and forth, pulling from art and textual evidence (and lack thereof) to support or deny the claim that Psychedelic Mushrooms are the root of Christian religion.

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Anthropologist, Author and Activist Served as the Prof of Anthropology at FIU in Miami He designed and taught a course on hallucinogens and culture He is the Co-Author of Sacred Plants and the Gnostic Church: Speculations on Entheogen use in Early Christian Ritual The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in Christianity

Author, Public Speaker, Roller Derby Player and Potion Maker He is the Author of three books in Psychedelia; The Witches Ointment: the Secret History of Psychedelic Magic Psychedelic Mystery Traditions; Spirit Plants, Magical Practices and Psychedelic States Microdosing Magic: A Psychedelic Spellbook Partnered with event organizer and short film maker, Eden Woodruff, who runs Psanctum Psychedelia in Portland in the process of winning the Guinness Book of World Record in Magic

• The debate is around the early Christian use of psychedelics and mushrooms in Christian art
• The conversation is on the validity on whether or not psychedelics were used in early Christianity

• The Miracle of Marsh Chapel - a double-blind experiment conducted by Walter Pahnky in 1962 where 20 students were divided into two groups, half received niacin and the other half received psilocybin
  • 9 out of 10 who took psilocybin had a profound psychedelic experience
  • Brown explains that this is an important part in the entire history of psychedelics
• After discovering the Amanita Muscaria mushroom (confirmed by Paul Stamets) in a 15th Century Church in Scotland, he realized that there were many entheogenic images in Christian art
• He says that most church historians do not have training in mycology to recognize entheogens and mushrooms
• He brings up an image of Adam and Eve standing next to a large Amanita Muscaria mushroom
• He went to a Parish Church and saw an image of Jesus entering Jerusalem on a Donkey, and one of the youths welcoming Jesus is holding a long mushroom cap
• He went to churches in England, Germany and France
  • In the drawing of Genesis, he saw God creating plants (psilocybin mushrooms)
• "When you go back beyond the 3rd century, there are no visual images or Christian art due to poverty and persecution" - Jerry
• Jerry reads a passage, “Jesus said to his disciples, “compare me to someone and tell me who I am like” Thomas said to him, “Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like.” Jesus said “I am not your master, because you have drunk you have become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out. He who will drink from my mouth will become like me, I shall become like he, and the things that are hidden, should be revealed to him.”
  • He interprets the passage as a reference to drinking a psychoactive mushroom substance
  • Jerry goes on to explain that Jesus realized his feeling of eternal life through the use of psychoactive entheogens
  • He says that this is not a means of dismissing Christianity, but instead to reintroduce Christianity with its original roots

• Tom says that Jerry makes a lot of assertions, but does not present any evidence. He talks about art, but not anything in scripture
• Tom is curious why the only artwork that Jerry brings his assertions about mushrooms are from a time where we can’t ask them about it
• Tom brings up Julie and Jerry’s book and that the first chapter has nothing to do with Christian History at all
• Tom uses an example of stone mushrooms. Someone doing a cross cultural analysis, might agree that they are mushrooms based on the other findings of cannabis and opioids
  • But, as a historian, Tom looks for evidence and in this case, there are eye witness accounts of its use
• He brings up the example, the infamous plaincourault fresco of Adam and Eve at the tree of good and evil with the forbidden fruit
  • Using this one example, he wants to prove how critical historical methodology is used to prove unsubstantiated claims on Christian art as wrong
  • Tom urges listeners to view the unaltered versions of the plaincourault fresco at Georgio Samorini’s Flikr page 
  • The paradise tree is a mix of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and a symbol of Christ's victory over Adam’s transgression. In the play, it was tradition to place small Eucharist wafers on the tree branches so that’s what the white dots are on the tree branches
  • The tree's shape is not a mushroom cap, it is a parasol of victory

• Jerry says that the absence of evidence, is not equal, or proof of evidence of absence (just because it’s not written in text, doesn't mean that its not there in the art)
• Jerry’s issue with the fresco is that “The Fall” is a New Testament creation, not all the way back in Genesis
• He says that on their website, they do not ‘alter’ the image, they ‘enhance’ it
• He says that Tom claims the fruit doesn't matter, but the fruit does matter (it could be a psychedelic mushroom)
• He touches on the skeletal appearance of Eve and the meaning of renewal of life
• Jerry thinks this image is the beginning of the religious experience and symbolism that the soul is immortal and will continue to exist after death
• He says the serpent is not a depiction of evil entering Eden, but instead a source of knowledge and a spiritual guide to the feminine to help bring man into higher awareness

• Tom says he didn't hear any evidence from Jerry, he heard arguments to authority
• He says that Jerry uses anthropology to uncover history, and opinions of art historians, but medieval historians agree that the mushroom is not present in Christian art
• He also says he did agree with Jerry about the mushroom in art, but that was last year and he has proven himself wrong and that the mushroom caps are parasols of victory
• Jerry says that Amanita Muscaria was in the Soma, but Tom says cannabis was, and mushrooms were not Chris Bennett's book on Soma
• There is zero evidence for mushroom art during medieval times
• In Jerry’s book, he writes about the Basilica di Aquilea, saying that they are Amanita Muscaria, but Tom says they are not that type of mushroom

• Tom also says that in the play depicted in the plaincourault, that the script literally says the wafers are hung on the tree, and that the little white dots are not the dots from an Amanita Muscaria

• He says that this isn't just cultural analysis, this is about fieldwork and looking at how native people view this artwork
• The problem he has with Tom and Church historians is that it is not taking evidence from Ethnobotanists
• Jerry says he believes that there is a long tradition of entheogenic mushrooms in Christian art and would like this debate to continue

• Tom says he still isn't hearing evidence, he is only hearing assertions and argument to authority and eminent scholars
• Tom says that Genesis doesn't matter in the plaincourault, because we know that it's about the play
• He has multiple articles debunking these images on his website
  • Carl Sagan’s Bologna Detection Kit - which shows how to spot fake conspiracies
• Tom says the holy mushroom hypothesis fails against all the claims Jerry has made

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Jerry B. Brown, Ph.D., is an anthropologist, author and activist. From 1972-2014, he served as Founding Professor of Anthropology at Florida International University in Miami, where he designed and taught a course on “Hallucinogens and Culture.” The course examines the use of psychoactive plants by tribal and classical cultures, including Ancient India and Greece, and by and discusses the discoveries of the modern mind-explorers, the “psychonauts of the twentieth century.”

Thomas Hatsis is an author, lecturer, and historian of witchcraft, magic, Western religions, contemporary psychedelia, entheogens, and medieval pharmacopeia. In his spare time he visits rare archives, slings elixirs, and coaches roller derby.

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In this episode, Joe interviews Duncan Autrey, a conflict transformation catalyst and educator. He runs a podcast, Fractal Friends, that covers topics of self-similarity across our diversity. During their conversation, Joe and Duncan discuss ways of resolving conflict in our relationships and society.

1. Duncan Autrey is a conflict transformation educator, working for peace and cultural change.
2. Conflict happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side. It is a product of living in a diverse world.
3. We have more rights than we think we do when facing law enforcement.

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• Conflict is a product of living in a diverse world
• Conflict resolution is about how to get different perspectives working together
• Conflict happens when someone is really passionate about their side of the topic
• Conflict also happens when one person wants to be heard so much that they stop listening to the other side
• The ARC of conversation
  • A stands for acknowledge
  • R stands for reflect back
  • C stands for be curious

• Its okay to be certain about your own experiences, but someone might also be certain about their experiences and the key is to find a mutual ground
• "How do we understand ecological issues better and work with each other to find how to create better conversation around it?" - Joe
• In a conversation of conflict, the other side may be the antidote to your extreme
  • Interdependent Polarity - each side has something positive and negative, and each side should acknowledge the negative but aim to pull out the positive of the other side
  • Iceers
• “It's better to find a way to navigate the question, rather than to answer the question” - Duncan
• In a hierarchy of permanence, laws are really low. Laws come and go
• 3 ways we resolve conflict over time; power, violence and laws
  • But the interest based model includes everyone and all sides and works through conflict to live in and share the same planet with each other

• “Shifts happen”
• People that Duncan works with start thinking to themselves “I'm a good guy facing a bad guy” and the person on the other side of conflict also thinks “I'm a good guy facing a bad guy”
  • Helping guide the people in conflict to just listen to the other person fully is what starts the shift

• It's important to recognize the difference between the system and the individuals
  • Our whole system of television, movies, everything is all feeding into this
• There are sociopaths in the world (5% of the population), and they are falling into roles like prison guards and CEO’s
• Duncan brings up a story where he was in a car with someone who got pulled over, and the car got completely searched
  • He had vitamins on him, and the police assumed it was MDMA, so he was arrested and spent 4 days in jail
  • “This is a place where the people who are on the right side of the law, are being treated like assholes, and where people on the bad side of the law, are on their best behavior” - Duncan
  • This is a systemic issue, where the society says that you are a good person for doing something good, and are a bad person for doing something bad
  • But we shouldn't be defined by what we are ‘caught’ doing, either good or bad
  • People should be able to hold onto their humanity (not be locked up for life) for something like possession of a drug
  • “If we're going to care about our shared humanity and our right for everyone to be here, we have to figure out the path of restoration” - Duncan
  • “Slavery isn't okay, unless someone gets convicted of a crime”
  • Victoria’s Secret has people in prison slavery making lingerie in South Carolina
  • People have to pay off debt from their incarceration, before they get a license, to get a job, that they have to apply to as a criminal
  • Society doesn't make it easy to be human after prison
  • People in grad school with the same amount of debt, have an education, (usually) a job, and have hope for the future

• Right to remain silent is real
• Right to consent for search - you don't have to say yes
  • Law enforcement tries to use the fact that you think you're guilty and will let the search happen
• You can't be detained without probable cause (4th Amendment)
  • You can be detained long enough for a traffic citation, but not enough to be caught for another crime
• Smoke smell in the car is probable cause, even in s state where it is legal
• Joe mentions dash cams so that there can be recordings on both ends, not just one end (the police’s evidence)
• Duncan had the thought that maybe once they realize that his vitamins were not MDMA, that they might try to switch out the vitamins with MDMA
  • His attorney said they aren't that corrupt, or smart

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Duncan Autrey has worked in facilitation and conflict resolution for over fifteen years in diverse contexts ranging from rural Paraguay and Colombia to cities of Seattle, Washington, DC, Cuenca and Buenos Aires. He approaches conflict from a belief that it arises from the diverse cultural experiences of common human needs. Every conflict or complicated situation, large or small, is an opportunity for deepening our relationships and improving the world we live in. Duncan currently runs a podcast called Fractal Friends covering topics on exploring our self-similarity across our diversity.

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In this episode, Joe interviews Steve Hupp, the Host of Kentucky Ayahuasca, a new series on Viceland. Topics include Steve’s background and how he wants to impact the American Ayahuasca scene through his work.

1. Kentucky Ayahuasca is a docu-series on Viceland about Shaman, Steve Hupp as he works with people seeking healing from severe emotional and physical issues.
2. Steve comes from an unusual background of career criminal and bank robber, and because of his time in prison with a Peruvian Shaman, has decided to bring the tradition to the United States.
3. Steve is careful not to mock what shamanism is by creating ceremony in the States. He wants facilitation to be done as safely as possible and is simply trying to help people through Ayahuasca ceremony.

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• He was a career criminal who robbed banks
  • It landed him in prison and put him into the same cell of a Peruvian shaman who had overstayed his visa and was probably doing some facilitating in the States
  • His name was Guadalupe and Steve called him Loopy because of the things he was talking about
  • But here and there Guadalupe would say something that would resonate with Steve days and weeks later that just made sense

• He spent 4 years in prison
  • He got into the federal system because he had beaten the state system so the federal system picked up the case
  • Steve pleaded guilty and made a deal with them to give them their money back
  • He also agreed not to sue the police for opening fire on him
  • He was one of the first bank robbers released on a bond

• Up to that point he was an Atheist
  • He decided that something else was keeping him alive for something because of what he survived during the police chase
• Steve says he's seen how religious law worked by seeing gangs turn into congregations
• He says he is no longer an Atheist after having experience with Ayahuasca
• He had an epiphany that “anything is possible” and he decided he wanted to bring this to everyone
• He started to have coincidences that led him to facilitation

• Steve isn't trying to defraud what Shamanism is, but he is trying to tailor it to the American way of life
  • He says the Shaman in the jungle has a different context than an American does
• Joe mentions that people get upset about how the word ‘shaman’ is used
  • Steve says ‘shaman’ comes from the Siberian word, ‘saman’, which means “to know” but has been branded by anthropologists
  • He also says shamanism is the oldest world religion
• Joe brings up that so many people suggest doing Ayahuasca in the Amazon because that's where the spirit of the plant is, but he also mentions that the same type of biodiversity exists in Kentucky too

• Steve says they face reverse-racism because they can't work with native tribes because they are white, but he’s just looking to bring everyone together
• “If we don’t start helping our little blue sphere heal, it's all we've got” - Steve
• He said he had more fear transitioning into Ayahuasca facilitation than any bank he’s robbed because he had to put his name on it
• His intent is not to build a cult, he believes we are at the dawn of a new world and we are all in this together

• Steve says he believes there are no addicts, just unbalanced humans
  • Joe says he read recently that the term “addict” keeps people in their problems
  • When he helps people who are addicted to drugs, and they drink Ayahuasca, they realize the drug is not the problem, but the guilt and the shame about using the drug is the problem

• Steve believes we are intergalactic children
• We could use our technology and knowledge to better us rather than being so distracted by the ‘lines in the sand’
  • He says we could feed everyone on the planet with land the size of Texas
• What Ayahuasca is trying to teach us is to be kind to each other and we have that choice everyday
• We need to get past this barbaric attitude of domination
• “I know I've got grandchildren that I may never see, but I've got to try to leave them a world better than the one I've found” - Steve
  • If we were to teach our kids to teach our grandkids something, we wouldn't be handing them millions of dollars in national debt
  • Its a non-violent change
  • “What if we collectively manifested accountability in our government?” - Steve

• Steve believes law enforcement shouldn't be able to have more power than soldiers at war
  • Soldiers in Iraq can't fire unless they have been fired upon

• No one has ever done this before, Steve wants to put together a structure to make sure this operation is done ethically
  • He wants to lay the foundation for people to participate in Ayahuasca ceremony safely
  • He says anybody can brew Ayahuasca, but doing it safely and properly is key
• Joe encourages viewers to check out the series on Viceland
• Steve also encourages listeners who want to do Ayahuasca abroad to do tons of research before attending to make sure there are proper facilitators, ethical procedures and quality emergency response techniques and resources

Kentucky Ayahusca on Viceland Website

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Steve Hupp had spent time in the Military. He was lost in materialism, drug abuse, alcoholism and pride that led him on a 5 year bank robbing spree that ended with him in Federal Prison, where he met his first Shaman, a cellmate. Now he is an Ayahuasca Shaman performing psychedelic healing ceremonies in Kentucky. Steve has worked with Ayahuasca for 15 years, trained by a Shaman from South America on how to work with Ayahuasca. He has spent much of that time working alone and experiencing many visions and entities that called him to found Aya Quest.

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In this episode, Joe sits down with Kevin Matthews, Campaign Manager of Decriminalize Denver, the group looking to decriminalize magic mushrooms. During the show, they cover topics such as the Right to Try Act, therapeutic success and what it might look like to have Psilocybin decriminalized in Denver.

1. Decriminalize Denver’s efforts are aimed to decriminalize Psilocybin Mushrooms in the city of Denver, CO., and are currently getting signatures to be on the May 2019 ballot.
2. The Federal Right to Try Act allows a person with a life-threatening illness to use any substance that has passed phase one clinical trials.
3. There is so much research and data on the benefits of Psilocybin Mushrooms, and being in an age of social media sharing, people are waking up to the idea of mushroom decriminalization.

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• Kevin is a part of the group, Decriminalize Denver
  • The group submitted the ballot initiative called the Denver Psilocybin Mushroom Decriminalization Initiative and they are getting signatures to make the May 2019 ballot
• Kevin became interested in mushrooms after leaving as a Cadet at the US Military Academy due to major depression
  • He was interested in Psilocybin Mushrooms impact on depression

• “Self-healing from psychedelics” is something most people want to be careful talking about
  • Does it uninspire therapists?
  • Does it ruin the medical model?
• Kevin states that people are afraid to talk about it because they are a schedule 1 substance
  • Those who are willing to take the risk to talk about it are because they believe that mushrooms might have the best impact on them

• Kevin knows someone with PTSD and tumors who is prescribed to Psilocybin under the Federal Right to Try Act
  • Anyone who has a life-threatening illness can use any substance that has passed phase one under clinical trials
  • His psychiatrist said that the psilocybin has been nothing short of miraculous in its effects
  • He takes 1.5-2 grams of dried mushrooms every 7-10 days It puts him in control of his own protocol
  • Trump just signed the Federal Right to Try Act this summer, Colorado has had their own since 2014

• Joe says that the media landscape has really changed in the past few years and so much more research and information is becoming accessible to everyone
• Veterans for Natural Rights group is supporting this mushroom movement
• After the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, a lot of people went underground with their use
  • 30 million people in the country have used psychedelics in the last decade
  • More young people now are using psychedelics than the same age group used psychedelics in the 60’s

• The goal of the group is to decriminalize the personal use and personal possession of Psilocybin mushrooms, including the propagation of mushrooms for personal use
• “Our main goal with this is to keep individuals out of prison, help our vets, and help our loved ones who suffer from these traumas” - Kevin

• Right now, Colorado state legislature is looking at safe injection sites and different kinds of penalty such as rehab instead of incarceration
  • Joe says Denver is a kind of microcosm of the whole nation, it has an interest in both sides of an issue, instead of just one sided
• “Mushrooms help, in a very profound way. And opening that door is the first step to changing people’s minds, both metaphorically and physically.” - Kevin
  • The medical applications of Psilocybin are huge such as for a stutter, autoimmune issues, anxiety and depression

• Kevin says you can't have a conversation without two opposing sides
  • He is excited for when the conversation starts because there is a ton of points on why Psilocybin is proven to be effective
  • John’s Hopkins said that Psilocybin should at a minimum be a Schedule 4 (same level as prescription sleep aids) source
• Schedule 1 means “no medical value and high risk of abuse”
  • From the clinical research and population studies alone on Psilocybin, we know that's false

• Getting all 5,000 signatures (2,000 so far) by January 7th
• Coalition building, doing some fundraising
• Getting volunteers activated
• After getting all the signatures, then they will be on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the campaign and outreach starts

• Joe brings up a story about his teacher Lenny Gibson who had multiple bouts of cancer and is a psychedelic scholar. Lenny was incredibly mad at Tim Leary because he was in cancer support groups and imagines how many more options cancer patients would have for pain if drugs were not made illegal
• Looking at decreasing suffering, it would be special for the Denver population to find relief in anxiety and depression before going into a life-threatening surgery, etc.
• If this turns into a regulatory medical paradigm, licensure is important
  • How do we create the paradigm to open the work in a professional therapeutic manner?

• Doctors will get together around a case study and share it within the medical community
  • It's a way to share and practice case studies organically and internally
• With social media alone 30,000 people can be reached a month
  • Typing in to Google “benefits of mushrooms” brings up a ton of research
• When people hear about John Hopkins, NYU, Harvard, UCLA Medical Center, and all of these companies that have already been doing the research they become more interested
  • Medicalization does not equal rescheduling
  • Carl Hart
• It takes the breaking up of a family after prison time of a drug offense, 7 generations to recover
  • Joe knows of a case where someone in Colorado who got busted for having mushrooms only ended up serving 2 weeks and didn't get a felony for it
• In 2005 New Mexico Court of Appeal said that cultivation of psilocybin mushrooms does not qualify as the manufacture of a controlled substance, as long as they aren't dried

• How do we ruin fewer lives by legalizing mushrooms and keeping people out from behind bars?
• Mushrooms can put you in touch with yourself and help connect yourself to others

• Most of the responses are, “Hell yeah I’m going to sign this!” or “This saved my life”
  • Kevin says when someone says no, it's all about educating them
• They had 45% support it and 20% maybes

• The bill would include a Psilocybin Mushroom Policy Review Panel, a city level committee made up of health professionals, Police, Denver Sheriff's office, city attorneys, etc

• Kevin wants as many people as possible willing to participate to volunteer
• They will be starting public Q&A twice a month (and live streaming them)

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Kevin Matthews is leading the decriminalization of Psilocybin mushrooms in Denver, Colorado. He and his group of dedicated volunteers are currently collecting signatures to make the May 2019 Ballot.

In this episode, Joe and Kyle interview Jake Mitchell from the Flight of Thoughts Podcast. Jake has spent 4 years as a Paramedic in Canada and leads trainings around mental health, first aid and is bringing better practice of psychedelics into the psychedelic space.

1. It’s so important to know your substances and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you're taking.
2. More people seek help when they look at an overdose or a difficult experience as if they are suffering versus breaking the law. Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal.
3. Most police aren't trained on mental health issues, and they have shot and killed people because they don't know how to correctly respond to issues like schizophrenia. We need more mental health training among our law enforcement.

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• He had major depression and didn't know it, and started to use cannabis as a useful tool for his depression
  • He started to notice some of the first responders use MDMA and Psilocybin off-duty to help with their PTSD
  • “PTSD for those who have been in combat is more understood than for first responders with it, people think that we can just handle it.” - Jake
  • There are levels of trauma that don't qualify daily for PTSD, but for police and firefighters and such, they can be triggered by certain events
• It's hard to say what percentage of first responders use cannabis, MDMA and psilocybin for personal therapeutic use
  • Jake says he knows of at least a quarter of first responders who have been open about their use
  • There is a new initiative that if police use cannabis, even right before their shift, as long as they are ‘fit for duty’ they won't be scrutinized

• CBD counteracts the effects of THC, THC binds to CB1 receptors, and CBD binds to CB2 receptors
  • CBD is similar to Advil
  • If someone has taken too many edibles, they can take Advil to counteract the effect of the THC
  • It counteracts the THC similar to how CBD does
• People used to say to have a good night, eat a pot brownie, but it's a better idea to smoke for the first time than to eat an edible

• They are teaching people about harm reduction kits or when to call an ambulance
  • Know your substances, and get a testing kit so you know its not laced and you know exactly what you're taking
  • Know what breathing technique you want to use if you “feel the fear” setting in
  • If you know someone is on a clean substance, you can try to help them through it, but if it could be laced (with fentanyl, etc) call an ambulance
  • If someone is unresponsive, that's a sign they could be overdosing
  • You can rub as hard as you can with your knuckles on their chest and scream their name, and if they don't wake up, that's a good sign to call 911
  • Always turn them on their side so that their air passages open up and they don't asphyxiate on their tongue or vomit
  • If you are informed on how to use narcan and you think they are overdosing on fentanyl, use it
  • If they are awake and are psychologically freaking out, just sit them down and simply ask them “how can I help?” They might want something as simple as some water or to go for a walk
• Knowing your dose is so important
  • LSD and psilocybin don't have cardiac effects, they don't shut off breathing, so you shouldn't have a reason for feeling like your going to actually die unless it's been laced
  • MDMA is one you have so worry about but you'd have to take hundreds and hundreds of milligrams
  • Fentanyl test strips are $2
  • They are only $1.50 if you buy 100 or more

• The first option should always be cannabis
• Usually the only reason that people overdose on heroin is because it's laced with pharmaceuticals
• Advil and Tylenol work similar to opioids
• Sometimes we have emotional trauma and it comes out as physical pain
• More people seek help when they look at it as that they are suffering versus breaking the law
  • Narcan costs $20-$40
  • An overdose death costs $30,000
  • In Canada, the pharmacist will inform you on how to use Narcan
  • Jake says he hopes that the US will catch up Narcan availability and use
• The grinding of the teeth after taking MDMA may be a sign that it contains amphetamine
• Decriminalization at the least, would help make people be seen as a patient and not a criminal

• The Good Samaritan Act in Canada says if you have minor possession of a substance and not a traffic-able amount, and you call the ambulance for an overdose, you will not be searched or charged
• Most police aren't trained on mental health issues, and there have been situations of people with schizophrenia having a moment in public, and because the police don't have education on signs to look for, they have shot and killed the victim
• 23 and Me, the gene testing company has found that over 180,000 genes tested have been linked to schizophrenia
  • High THC levels can make schizophrenia worse, where CBD can counteract it

• Jake says he's been hit in the face by someone on PCP
  • It took 6 police to hold one person down.
• Another time, there was a guy who was wearing underwear in freezing weather, punching cars driving at almost 40 miles an hour
  • They were snorting Wellbutrin, an antidepressant that works as a stimulant when snorted
• Serotonin syndrome is super dangerous
  • Ketamine is used in the ER for scenarios like this
• Does taking MDMA too frequently ruin your serotonin system?
  • Emanuel Sferios - the number one risk of using MDMA is you might not get high from it anymore

• Type II Diabetes is a symptom of sugar addiction
  • Sugar and carbs create bacteria in the gut that releases plaque in the blood
• Technology addiction - Jake had a patient that sliced an artery and was texting and on candy crush and Snapchat

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Jake is a Primary Care Paramedic with experience in emergency response, evidence-based research practice, harm reduction techniques, and crisis intervention. He is the Founder of The Psychedelic Society of First Responders and Emergency Workers.

In this interview, Brian Pace interviews Dr. Jason Slot at Ohio State University. In the show, they talk about Jason’s contributions of the psilocybe genus. Jason is in the faculty at OSU in the department of plant pathology.

1. There are over 200 species of mushroom forming fungi that produce psilocybin, and Jason studies how and why these organisms produce the psychoactive compound.
2. Animals seek altered states of consciousness as a potential evolutionary mechanism.
3. Mushrooms use horizontal gene transfer to pass on their psychoactive properties.

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• "There weren't many mycology job postings in the area, and a job came up for someone to study the evolution of fungal genomes" - Jason
  • It all just fell into place

• Ecology is the interaction among organisms and their interaction with their environment
  • Neurochemical ecology is a special case where the chemicals are specifically targeted to processes of nervous systems in animals
  • There is an opportunity for plants and fungi to produce drugs and compounds that manipulate their behavior or inhibit their eating

• There are over 200 species of mushroom forming fungi that produce psilocybin
  • Jason has found many more

• Mushrooms were anatomically modern
• There were flowering forests and wood that spanned to each of the poles
  • The supercontinent would have broken up after that and as the continents separated, so did the mushrooms
  • Humans have been distributing psilocybe through the dung of migrating animals

• During colonization from the old world to the new world, there was the biggest exchange of fungi
  • If the amount of biomass and dung expands, then the number of fungi species evolves and grows
  • The underlying change in the climate that changes the planet from forested to open grasslands also has an impact
  • During human evolution, psilocybe has been around the whole time
  • These neurochemicals have dated human genus

• Serotonin is analogous to psilocybin
• Bacteria was the first organism making serotonin
• Insects produce serotonin
  • “Serotonin is a great key, it fits into a lot of different locks and is used in a lot of different ways” - Jason
• It's in plants, its in amoebas, and its in animals
• In animals, they have specialized a lot of different receptors that respond to serotonin
• Serotonin only interacts with one type of receptor in the body

• “It must be like something to be a bat, and it must be different than what it's like to be a human, what must it be like to be a bat under the influence of psilocybin, is it anything like a human?” -Brian
• Animals seek altered states of consciousness
  • Bees seek out fermented grapes
  • We have video footage of foxes taking huge bites out of Amanita Muscaria
  • Seeking out intoxication is a natural human drive
  • Maybe the desire to seek out these altered states of consciousness is an evolutionary mechanism that is happening
• If you search out new ways of perceiving the world, you may come upon a new pattern that your group of species learns how to live better
  • If ants come back to the hive too drunk, they get punished and get bit

• One of the ways humans distinguish ourselves
  • We have specialized vocal chords, and tongues that make our language unique
• Terrence - Stoned Ape Theory - the thesis was that psilocybin mushrooms were a part of the diets of the hominids
• There was some kind of co-evolutionary relationship that may have resulted in human language

• “What kind of role did psilocybin mushrooms play in our development?”
  • The hominids came down from the trees and now they are standing upright
• We have to look at opportunity, constraints, etc.
  • If the ape eats psilocybin, it may have an idea or understands its environment better
  • It may help the ape acquire more food or expand into new territory
  • The access to food and changes in locomotion are huge forces in our evolution
  • Having fire to cook our meat and change our availability to nutrients is one of the biggest forces in evolution of human consciousness than mushrooms

• Vertical transfer of information means from parent to offspring
  • Horizontal transfer of genetic information happens between species
  • One bacteria has a gene to resist an antibiotic, and another doesn't. One bacteria can obtain that gene from the antibiotic resistant bacteria (ex. Antibiotic-resistant staphylococcus)
• Gene transfer can happen in multicellular creatures like mushrooms
  • Fungi are exchanging genes through different species
  • Paneolis Mushrooms did not inherit the biosynthetic pathway to produce psilocybin, they received it from a totally different genera

• A comet impact that caused havoc and climate change that resulted in the extinction of dinosaurs
  • Mega herbivores, putting out tons of herbivore dung
• The genes to make psilocybin were acquired by a dung loving Paneolis from a dung loving Psilocybe
  • Dung attracts flies, but it doesn't kill the insects that eat psilocybin
• Psilocybin is one of the safest drugs for consumption
• The amatoxin in Amanita Muscaria (The Destroying Angel, commonly mistaken with Matsutake), interrupts the central part of cellular metabolism

• He sequenced 3 different species of mushrooms that make psilocybin, and then looked at one species that didn't make psilocybin
  • They take two pieces of DNA and then compare them
  • They all have those genes, but how did they get them?
  • Validated the biosynthesis of psilocybin
• Mediated Horizontal Gene Transfer
  • When fungi are under stress they take the DNA from their environment

• There are cicada pathogens that infect the cicadas before they emerge from their ‘underground’ and their rear end is transformed into these spore producing structures
  • They fly around and drop their spores all over
• Are these plants or fungi are using any of these neurochemicals in house for cognition?
• Turing test - a computer can convince you that it's human

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Jason Slot is an Evolutionary Biologist that studies topics in three major areas, the genomic and metabolic bases of fungal adaptation and niche, horizontal gene transfer mechanisms and the evolution of symbioses. He is in the Department of Plant Pathology at Ohio State University.

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In this episode, Joe interviews Philip Wolf founder of Cultivating Spirits, a cannabis pairing company. The talk includes topics on Terpenes, Social Consumption and the Cannabis experience industry.

1. Terpenes are the component in cannabis that produce the aroma and ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking.
2. As more and more places legalize cannabis, the market opportunity for combining food and cannabis grows.
3. Cultivating Spirits is a cannabis experience and tour company that offers small-batch cannabis, fine wines, and locally sourced gourmet meals. They are a leader in cannabis-infused experiences.

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• Philip has been in the legal industry of cannabis in Colorado for 9 years
  • Cultivating Spirits started in Breckenridge, Colorado in 2014 after legalization
  • He went to a wine experience event and had an epiphany of bringing the cannabis experience to the ‘soccer mom’
  • He walked away from equity in multiple companies because he believed in it
  • Cultivating Spirits is the first company to offer a cannabis pairings experience
  • After learning about terpenes he learned about pairing foods with attributes of cannabis

• There are 3 components in cannabis that give you certain feelings
  • THC gets you high, gives a euphoric feeling
  • Flavonoids
  • Terpenes produce the aroma of cannabis and it determines the ‘mood’ you will be in after smoking
• Terpenes are produced in all plants and produce, they attract pollinators and help fight disease within the plant
• THC-A is non-activated THC, meaning it needs a flame or heat to activate it
• Michael Pollan’s book - Botany of Desire
• At the base genetic level, our goal is to reproduce and expand
  • “Are we the workers for this plant?” - Philip Wolf

• They are loving it!
• The average age for a  person who attends Cultivating Spirits is 45
• Cultivating Spirits focuses on parties and events
• Old folks are some of the best clientele, they don't have jobs and they are done with all of the hassles of making a family and working hard for their job, etc.

• Microserving is one hit
  • Holding cannabis in longer doesn't get you higher, it's about the surface area of your lungs
  • So if you expand your lungs very lightly, you will get less high than if you would if you fully expand your lungs when taking a hit

• Cultivating Spirits operates all over Colorado
  • They are working to expand to Las Vegas
• They also opened up Cannabition
• They are taking this business to other places with good heart

• Cannabis isn't the reason for the decline in alcohol sales, but the desire for new experiences
• Philip believes it will happen first through coffee shops
  • Everyone needs food, so it's a great market to integrate into
  • “I use cannabis like I use a cup of coffee, I use it, but I don't use it all day” - Philip Wolf

• There is a psychoactive part to cannabis
  • Philip says he uses cannabis to deepen his meditation and yoga practice
  • He is a Certified Yoga Teacher
  • Although he is certified to teach, he did it for himself and to learn tools he can use during his whole life
• Cannabis is a mirror - it's what’s inside already but getting amplified

• The opening of X-games in Aspen, CO in 2015
  • 5 courses, 5 wines, 5 strains of cannabis
  • A DJ from Thievery Corporation deriving beats from where the food dishes come from
  • Jessica Catalano - Infusion Chef

• Lemonine makes your mind energized and Alphapinine and Betapinine will help you focus Leafly
• Essential oils are made up of terpenes Doterra
• Max Montrose - Trichome Institute
• Daniel McQueen - Medinical Mindfulness

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Philip Wolf is one of the world’s first pot sommeliers, an expert and pioneer in the field. In 2014, he opened Cultivating Spirits with a mission to show mainstream America how cannabis should be treated. Setting tables with forks, wine, and pipes, Wolf’s pairings are grounded in the science of interpening, which the institute calls “a method used to identify and understand cannabis variety [by] interpreting … terpenes and flower structure.” Wolf can sniff a bud, identify the strain and terpenes, and interpret both the flavor profile and high. The protocol for his dinner with bud pairings is puff, eat, drink.

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Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison.

1. Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe.
2. Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had.
3. The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis.

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• Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions
• They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom
• Making festivals safe in Europe

• Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto
• She started working in the field of problematic drug use
  • Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use
  • She began focusing on recreational use
  • Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances
  • She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem
• She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom
  • It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments

• Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use
• She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program
  • She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers
  • She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy
• They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction

• Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session
• This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills
  • They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days
• Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare
  • They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees)
  • The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken

• Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries
• Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered
  • Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has
  • Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man
  • Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over
  • It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit)
  • But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves
• In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible

• They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn't interrupt their lives in a bad way
  • Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don't develop problems with their drug use
  • Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers”
  • “The legal framework has a terrible influence on people's relationship with drugs” - Helena

• Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges
• In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency
  • It made her really question why she was doing this
  • Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user
  • She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn't taking unadulterated substances
  • “People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” - Maria
  • It's hard to determine people's ability to calculate risks
  • If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn't have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare

• Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo
• MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services
• They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology
• They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services

• Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services
  • The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use
• In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction
  • Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law
  • The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things
• Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic
  • In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids

• In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change
  • It was evident that prohibition was not working
• Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations

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Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012.

Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.